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Thread: FAA grounds all B-17E,F, & G models

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    Legacy Member RCS's Avatar
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    FAA grounds all B-17E,F, & G models

    The FAA recently issued a directive to ground all Boeing B-17E, F, and G models over concerns related to wing issues.

    There are 18 registered B-17's in the USAicon and which three are still flying. there is one in operation in the UKicon
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    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

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    Legacy Member limpetmine's Avatar
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    It was bound to happen. These old birds can't fly forever.
    Remember the N9M catastrophe. Last survivor of 4 built, and now gone, along with a seasoned pilot. My son and I were able to see it at the Chino Air Museum on a father son trip 1999.

    2019 Northrop N-9M crash - Wikipedia

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Yes, too bad but they're 85 years on now? How much longer can they safely fly? More important to have them prefect on the ground than maybe destroying things when they crash.
    Regards, Jim

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    Legacy Member oldfoneguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by browningautorifleicon View Post
    Yes, too bad but they're 85 years on now? How much longer can they safely fly? More important to have them prefect on the ground than maybe destroying things when they crash.
    The B17 can stay flying in the same way the B52 and the A10 is still in active service Jim. Regular inspection and maintenance schedules that are strictly adhered to and they can fly conceivably forever.
    I find it very hard to swallow that after 85+ years they suddenly find a defect in the design of the wing spar grounding all flying examples? A week before the Memorial Day air shows kick off? Not trying to do wrong by the site here but it reeks of dirty politics.

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldfoneguy View Post
    I find it very hard to swallow that after 85+ years they suddenly find a defect in the design of the wing spar
    OK, possibly dirty pool as you say. I do know about the B52, have seen them do runs over me. I know there's guys flying aircraft their grandfathers flew.
    Regards, Jim

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    Going with what I've heard from the B-17 group on Facebook: This isn't a wing spar issue, it is a wing attachment issue. Apparently the EAA's Aluminum Overcast was discovered to have a two-inch gap between the port wing and root while out on tour! To find the problem they had to disassemble the plane and ship it home. They told the FAA what they discovered and the FAA issued an Advanced Directive for the rest of the survivors involving disassembly, advance imaging, and remediation if necessary. It isn't a hard inspection.



    These are the parts in question, forward mounting plates and pins. The arrows point out where the pieces were relieved at service depots when they wouldn't reassemble after a service. Apparently one side had to be heated and the other had to be frozen before it could be done and some service depots didnt' know so the parts griped too much to be reassembled. The result over time could be hidden fracturing leading to the wings becoming loose! The parts aren't hard to find or fabricate. Aluminum Overcast and Sentimental Journey have been inspected and are back in the air already. Others are completing the process right now. The directive indicates that this may end up being a recurring 120 mo/2500hr inspection cycle for B-17s. More, HERE.

    Bob
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    Legacy Member GeeRam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
    Going with what I've heard from the B-17 group on Facebook: This isn't a wing spar issue, it is a wing attachment issue. Apparently the EAA's Aluminum Overcast was discovered to have a two-inch gap between the port wing and root while out on tour! To find the problem they had to disassemble the plane and ship it home. They told the FAA what they discovered and the FAA issued an Advanced Directive for the rest of the survivors involving disassembly, advance imaging, and remediation if necessary. It isn't a hard inspection.

    https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...71269566-1.jpg

    These are the parts in question, forward mounting plates and pins. The arrows point out where the pieces were relieved at service depots when they wouldn't reassemble after a service. Apparently one side had to be heated and the other had to be frozen before it could be done and some service depots didnt' know so the parts griped too much to be reassembled. The result over time could be hidden fracturing leading to the wings becoming loose! The parts aren't hard to find or fabricate. Aluminum Overcast and Sentimental Journey have been inspected and are back in the air already. Others are completing the process right now. The directive indicates that this may end up being a recurring 120 mo/2500hr inspection cycle for B-17s. More, HERE.

    Bob
    Those items in the photo posted are the items related to the previous AD issued back in 2001.

    The new AD is in relation to the bolts that fix through the steel spigot that fits inside the tapered alloy spar tube, the end of this spigot is what attaches to those steel plates.

    This updated article from aerovintage shows photo's from the items in a current dismantled B-17 being restored.

    https://www.aerovintage.com/2023/05/...e-may-25-2023/

    The big potential problem, will be if any NDT shows up any corrosion or cracks in the tapered ally tube section, rather than the steel spigot, as its impossible to reproduce these tapered spar tubes.
    The steel spigot can be replaced, although to do so means taking the wings off.
    Just the thing for putting round holes in square heads.

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    So how do they go with the Spitfires main spar as its assembled then cranked at which point you cannot separate it to inspect it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CINDERS View Post
    So how do they go with the Spitfires main spar as its assembled then cranked at which point you cannot separate it to inspect it!
    Spitfire spar beams can be reproduced, in fact pretty much everything for a Spitfire can, or has been reproduced, and is a very different form of construction.
    Just the thing for putting round holes in square heads.

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    Please forgive my ignorance but why is it impossible for them to reproduce the tapered spar tubes?
    "good night Chesty, Wherever You Are"

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