L4a3

[AndreasS]

Just got a L4A3 Bren .Does the MG 37GA is allways on the reciever?

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[Peter Laidler]

That's a very interesting and old one.......... There's a little story behind these, depending upon where yours originates..........

The MG 37 GA is the old Ministry of Supply part number. The full number would be C1 (Stores classification) -MG (machine gun) 37-GA the General Assembly number of the item.

Not a lot of people know that.........!

[Brit plumber]

Oddly it has a Mk2 butt and a Mk1 bipod, im pretty sure part of the conversion process would have been to fit a Mk4 butt and the L4 version of the Mk1 bipod with the dust shield on the bipod head.

[Peter Laidler]

That's why I said that it's an early - 1965 gun. There's more to it than this of course but some of these 'African' nations wanted their Mk2 guns converted and were quoted prices. When the stuff arrived, it was truly horrendous........ and I mean DIRE! But the prices were fixed and we were trying to keep them on side (1965 and all that don't forget.....) so they were rebuilt regardless of the cost even to the extent of depleting our own Mk2 stocks to replace the sheer tat if necessary. So to save costs, except for the actual conversion, if they came in as Mk2 .303" guns, they went back as 7.62mm Mk2 guns albeit as L4A3's I write about this whole saga in the Bren book. The problem was that instead of learning from the mistakes, we fell for it time and time again.

[AndreasS]

Thank you Peter , now i know for sure it was in british use in it's second life .
@ Brit plumer , as it is a converted Mk 2 doesn t it is logical to have a Mk 2 butt ?

---------- Post added at 01:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 PM ----------

Ok this answeres my question....

[Peter Laidler]

Strictly speaking, the 7.62mm converted guns such as the L4A3 and L4A5 (ex Mk2 guns) were all upgraded to be as close as the L4A2 and L4A4 (ex Mk3 Bren guns) guns as you could get. This included the later lightweight Mk3 gun butt assembly, Mk1 bipods with a sleeved shroud on the bipod sleeve to shield the gas exhaust ports and lightweight but slides (but not always I hasten to add) and the Mk2 guns had modified bodies to take the folding cocking handles. But again, not always.

I don't think your early L4A3 gun was ever in British service. The RAF and Navy, to my knowledge were still using Mk2 and 3 .303" Brens into the 70's and when I saw Navy L4 guns, they were L4A4's and L3A5's (1x chrome lined barrel versions of the 2x barrel A2 and A3 guns)

[Lee Enfield]

Deactivated 7.62mm Bren Gun - Modern Deactivated Guns - Deactivated Guns

UE66

[tankhunter]

if you look at one of the stamps on the Barrel. There is an INT in a circle. This is an INTERARMS conversion, & possibly then. NOT for the UK Military. All Brit In Service weapons were converted in Workshops. And don't Forget, Enfield Lock was also classed as a Base Workshop!.....

---------- Post added at 01:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 AM ----------

That's why I said that it's an early - 1965 gun. There's more to it than this of course but some of these 'African' nations wanted their Mk2 guns converted and were quoted prices. When the stuff arrived, it was truly horrendous........ and I mean DIRE! But the prices were fixed and we were trying to keep them on side (1965 and all that don't forget.....) so they were rebuilt regardless of the cost even to the extent of depleting our own Mk2 stocks to replace the sheer tat if necessary. So to save costs, except for the actual conversion, if they came in as Mk2 .303" guns, they went back as 7.62mm Mk2 guns albeit as L4A3's I write about this whole saga in the Bren book. The problem was that instead of learning from the mistakes, we fell for it time and time again.

Peter, I know it's a repeatedly asked question & to you must seem tedious. But, do you have an update on the Release of your Book on the Bren at all Mate?

I am painfully aware that the Bugg....ER,'Chaps' at the printers drag their heels over a lot of things. But they REALLY seem to be dragging their heels on this Publication, don't you think?.....

you would think, that in this time of cash flow being tight. They would want to get this thing onto the presses & rolling to complete the job. So that Money can begin to fill their coffers! They have certainly kept you (& Us!) hanging around for a VERY long time on this one!

---------- Post added at 01:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 AM ----------

That's why I said that it's an early - 1965 gun. There's more to it than this of course but some of these 'African' nations wanted their Mk2 guns converted and were quoted prices. When the stuff arrived, it was truly horrendous........ and I mean DIRE! But the prices were fixed and we were trying to keep them on side (1965 and all that don't forget.....) so they were rebuilt regardless of the cost even to the extent of depleting our own Mk2 stocks to replace the sheer tat if necessary. So to save costs, except for the actual conversion, if they came in as Mk2 .303" guns, they went back as 7.62mm Mk2 guns albeit as L4A3's I write about this whole saga in the Bren book. The problem was that instead of learning from the mistakes, we fell for it time and time again.

Pete, Isnt that's what is know as 'Value Engineered'...........

[Peter Laidler]

Back to the L4A3 subject again. The UK ARMY didn't have A3 guns so far as I am aware but the Navy did. The Army Command and Base workshops repaired the Navy A3 guns and the only Ordnance publications that I ever saw about the A3 and 5 guns was a parts list. And that was Navy parts list in the typically Navy BR series. That was a 'sort-of' copy of the L4A4 Ordnance Corps parts list with additions and amendments relating to, as I remember, the cocking handles and butt slides where it listed both the Mk1 and 2 cocking handles and the Mk2 and 4 (the lightweight version off the Mk3 gun) butt slides with an annotation A/R alongside which indicates AS REQUIRED - telling the stores that either are aplicable.

The book............ why don't those interested in pursuing it write to Frank Ianamico at office@sareview.com

[Brit plumber]

I bought my L4A3 off Tom R and I hink he mentioned it being from the cancelled IA contract for the TA, it was cancelled due to the GPMG being available instead.

I'm in doubt about IA carrying out the conversions, I think they must have refurbished them as I have seen a mix of serial numbers for the IA guns and original guns. Also, Enfield stopped converting to L4A4 in 1962 and changed to the L4A3 and then stopped A3 conversion and restarted the A4 in 1967 or 68. The other possibility is that they were converting Mk2 bodies only to keep the work up and these went into storage and were later given to IA to complete.

I have photos of UE66 A6976 in original condition with Enfield parts and I have photos of UE66 A6180, UE66 A6754 and UE66 A6899 which are IA refurbs

IA gun

Enfield gun