Enfield No2 Mk1* Pistol

[LTCJohnston]

At the Reno show one of the people we share a square of tables with had a enfield No 2 Mk 1* pistol (it was not for sale or displayed). This the enfield with the bobed hammer and double action only also know as the Enfield Commando (of course the Brit commandos never used it-really designed for tank crews). The date on the reciever was 1932 which really surprised as I thought they were a WW2 development. Wonder if stnadard No 2's were rebuilt into this configuration. Any ideas out there? Terry

Information

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[WHG2]

Many standard No 2 Mk 1 revolvers were converted to the double action only bobed hammer Mk1* configuration when they were turned in for maintance. That's why you will see many early date stamped pistols in the newer configuration.

[LTCJohnston]

Thought that was the case. Talk about a step backward. While I have a couple of them in my collection I have always thought of them as a poor excuse for a pistol. Much prefer the No2 Mk 1 that has a proper hammer! Terry

[jmoore]

I've used the spurless enfield in the cqb competitions at Ft. Benning and it really performs as well as any other revolver. Smith K-frame speed loaders work just fine. Although I just tried them as an experiment I managed to win one or two matches with 'em. (Generally used an L-frame for the bulk of my revoler shooting) circa 1998-2003

[Peter Laidler]

We have a saying in England, brought about when the Sten gun was introduced, that you can only kill a man so dead! The little .38 Enfield had what might be politely called '....a ****-poor start in life'. But it did well as an all rounder. I carried a Mk1 as my personal weapon for 2 years (oh yes I did Xxxx-X) up until I came back to England in 1970

The Mk1* version was introduced primarily for the tankies because after the introduction of the Mk1, they'd said that they only ever used the single action 'straight through pull' method of shooting in any case and the 'cock-and-shoot' feature of the Mk1 was wasted. There were sufficient Mk1's in the system for those in need of a double action pistol so to cheapen and speed production, the Mk1* was introduced. The Mk1* was NOT introduced because '....the hammer got caught on the insides of the tanks'. That is a myth of the highest horse manure! That notion was never mentioned. It was simply because the tankies were taught to shoot straight through.

There was always a lot of discussion about what to call each pistol type. The Army called the Mk1 type the DOUBLE action because it had two/double actions. The cock and shoot and the straight through pull. The Mk1* and 1** were described as SINGLE action because you could only shoot it ONE way....., a single action, straight through pull.

A Warminster we have the last pre-production .38" No2 prototype pistol produced by Webley and the first production pistol.

And if you hear anyone tell you that a bloke wearing a greatcoat at 25 yards will stop the bullets or that other gem, that a wet towel or blanket will stop them, tell 'em that they're wrong!

[JB White]

Peter, you gave me a chuckle as you so diplomatically defined the differences between single and double action as interpreted on opposing coastlines. It needed to be done though. To this very day I still find myself occasionally pausing to mentally translate English into American.

And if you hear anyone tell you that a bloke wearing a greatcoat at 25 yards will stop the bullets or that other gem, that a wet towel or blanket will stop them, tell 'em that they're wrong!

I think that school of thought originates from the fact that the 146 gr 38 S&W is factory loaded so anemic today. Going 10% over 'factory' when reloading doesn't match the rounds full potential.
When hearing wives tales such as that, I prefer to ask them to go downrange and show me. So far I've never had any takers.

[Jim K]

I have seen several comments to the effect that the British .380 cartridge (Cartridge, S.A., Ball, Revolver, .380 in., Mk II) was loaded much hotter and to higher pressures than the U.S. .38 S&W. But the British proofmarks indicate a working pressure of 3.5 [long] tons per square inch, or 7700 psi, half the standard pressure of the U.S. load, 14,500 psi. Am I missing something, or was the British WWII cartridge even more anemic than the U.S. version?

Jim

[JB White]

The British version used a much heavier bullet. The original 200 gr loading was said to be on par with the .455 as far as terminal performance. That effective performance was somewhat reduced with the jacketed 178 (?) grain bullet, but not as sickly as the US liability downloaded 146.

Are you certain both sets of test/proof data you saw are actually in psi? Rewritten text often misses that key part and American writers tend to use the term 'psi' for everything......but I would have bet good money that you were already aware of all that.

[bradtx]

Terry, Yeah, the trigger pull is weighty and ammo is expensive, but if anything the No.2 MKI* is a fun revolver to shoot. It is almost always with me when I go to the pistol range.

While I've improved at 10-15 yd., I've yet to hit a 25 yd. gong, but sooner or later!

Brad

PS Someday I'll spring for some 200 gr. ammo to see how it was meant to shoot.

[Mk VII]

the powder content is very variable and QC doesn't seem to have picked the ones that were undercharged very well.

The following notice appeared in the NRA Journal, Vol. XLIX, No.1 (Spring 1970)

From: The Director, Inspectorate of Armaments.

Cartridges. S.A. Ball. Revolver .380" Mark 2z

It should be noted that whilst the dimensions of cartridges of the above description are similar to those known commercially either as .38" S&W or as .38" Smith & Wesson Revolver and that they will chamber and fire in commercially made weapons their use in other than Service No.2 Revolvers is not recommended unless the weapons in which they are to be fired have been submitted to Special Definitive Proof in which event they will bear a marking in excess of "3½ tons" customarily found on weapons proved for .38" S.& W. Not only is the pressure generated by the Service .380" Mk 2z cartridge some 50% greater than that of the .38" S & W round but, because the bore size of the Service No.2 Revolver is greater than that found in pistols chambered for .38" S&W a considerable loss of velocity and accuracy may arise from its use in commercially produced weapons.