British MGs in the Falklands War

[Maple_Leaf_Eh]

This question was prompted by the news of PM Thatcher's death and remarks about her decision to retake the Falkland Islands.

There are several famous photos of British troops trudging their way from the beachhead towards battle. There are some showing 7.62 GPMGs positioned as local air defence on the beachhead. Then somewhere, maybe the Osprey book summarizing the campaign had shots of .50 Brownings in UK service. The caption suggested these were found in stores and rapidly issued to troops as the ship armada was being loaded. For whatever reason, I'd never thought much of British use of .50s then or now. Some of those Falklands memories came back listening to stories about the PM of the day.

The question to the collective wisdom is, how many .50cal Brownings would the British Army (or Royal Marines?) have held in 1982? What doctrine would they be using? Are these guns still in service?

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

There were literally thousands of the .50 Brownings in Ordnance at the time and were used. Generally speaking, these were all ex tank ranging machine guns that had to be re-fitted with grip type back plates and have the maxifort solenoids removed - among other things..... There was never a shortage as such. Mind you, these were the old ORIGINAL type .50" Brownings. Afterwards, some bright spark decided that it would be better if a quick change barrel version could be dreamed up and that's where the problems started............. And start, they did. Big time! Enough said!

Come on in Tankie and Skippy..........

[browningautorifle]

When we got the QCB guns in Gagetown NB, they were no end to trouble. What we found was they were designed to be used with FN ammo and CDN wasn't the right recipe to run them. It had effectively taken the adjustability form the men that had done it for years and made it a higher level maintenance weapon.

[Peter Laidler]

O' dear, o' deary me......... Same here. I went over and asked what on earth was going on - and on - and on... To be told that the initial problem was that during a barrel change with the original guns, the crunchies weren't setting the CHS correctly. The argument that a) they seemed to manage from 1925 until then and b) if they ain't doing it right, then teach them until they DO do it correctly fell on deaf ears. After all, it ain't difficult. I appreciate that there are gauges and all the rest of the stuiff but just screw the barrel in until the breech block fails to lock forwards. then unclick until the first full click that it DOES lock and then unclick a further TWO clicks and that it CHS! Fxxxxxg hell....., just how simple CAN it be?

[skiprat]

And put them on a soft mount to absorb the recoil !!!!.....

Then try and tell the user (skill at arms INSTRUCTOR) that he was NOT having constant gas stoppages!!

Many years after 1982 it was still a requirement for armourers deploying to the Falkland’s to be trained on .50 it was about the only reason they ran the courses.

In the armoury on the Island there were many many .50 of both British and Argentinean origin.

[Peter Laidler]

That's right Skippy. We had one that we brought back to the UK that came from the old submarine that was beached in Gritviken. That one was an old ex British one, complete with the FTR/55 markings.

I think we gave it to the Navy plus the AA mount. No recoil buffers on that! Sort of defeats the object a bit.....

[tankhunter]

After an enquiry last evening to a good mate of mine who very recently retired from 'A well Know Engineering Company'. In the UK who manufactures the .50" Cal BMG!

It transpires that ALL of the original wartime variants held at Donnington. are now out of Service & have been cut up.

This 'Company' produces the conversion kits to QCB from the original screw in Barrel method.

ALL Brit in Service BMGs are now converted to QCB. & I am reliably informed that visits to Donnington have ceased. To inspect the suitability of what they held there, for conversion to QCB.

The M.O.D now only buy in brand new guns from this 'Company'.

The QCB variant is good in theory, BUT. In practice, because of the amount of metal removed from the Barrel extentions to accommodate this Mod. It weaken's the original design!

Cracks appear in the edges of the extention in a straight line. & this component is now a 'Lifed Item' I believe? IE: so many rounds are to be fired through it before checks are made. & either it is changed before fracture. Or fired until it Fractures!.......

There are a lot of complicated procedure on this item during manufacture. Like stress relieving, heat treatment at different temps in different places on this one component alone!

The one thing that came to me a LONG time ago. When defects & Problems arose were: 'They got this right over seventy years ago from the start.' Here we are with all the 'Amazing' Technology & brilliant machinery at our disposal. & we STILL cant get it right!.......

Also, the design has been 'messed' with with the QCB Modification. & the old maxim of: 'If it Aint broke' don't fix it' comes to mind!...............

If you think about it. When you start removing metal from somewhere, where it was designed to be originaly. Then why should you be surprised when something fails?....
It's a little more complicated than that really. BUT, a contiuous round hole is machined away in THREE places, creating SIX straight lines within that Hole. Mmmmm, reverberating like a tuning fork during firing................WHY, are 'Designer's' surprised that the componants fails along a straight line?.............A child may well possibly have worked that one out?.....................HOW many Tons per square inch does the .50" Browning round generate?......................NOT really difficult, is it?......

A few original spec Fifties, were gifted to museums, as per normal practice. Peter will confirm this I am confident!

[mrclark303]

.50" Cal BMGs In Service
After an enquiry last evening to a good mate of mine who very recently retired from 'A well Know Engineering Company'. In the UK who manufactures the .50" Cal BMG!

It transpires that ALL of the original wartime variants held at Donnington. are now out of Service & have been cut up.

This 'Company' produces the conversion kits to QCB from the original screw in Barrel method.

ALL Brit in Service BMGs are now converted to QCB. & I am reliably informed that visits to Donnington have ceased. To inspect the suitability of what they held there, for conversion to QCB.

The M.O.D now only buy in brand new guns from this 'Company'.

The QCB variant is good in theory, BUT. In practice, because of the amount of metal removed from the Barrel extentions to accommodate this Mod. It weaken's the original design!

Cracks appear in the edges of the extention in a straight line. & this component is now a 'Lifed Item' I believe? IE: so many rounds are to be fired through it before checks are made. & either it is changed before fracture. Or fired until it Fractures!.......

There are a lot of complicated procedure on this item during manufacture. Like stress relieving, heat treatment at different temps in different places on this one component alone!

The one thing that came to me a LONG time ago. When defects & Problems arose were: 'They got this right over seventy years ago from the start.' Here we are with all the 'Amazing' Technology & brilliant machinery at our disposal. & we STILL cant get it right!.......

Also, the design has been 'messed' with with the QCB Modification. & the old maxim of: 'If it Aint broke' don't fix it' comes to mind!...............

If you think about it. When you start removing metal from somewhere, where it was designed to be originaly. Then why should you be surprised when something fails?....
It's a little more complicated than that really. BUT, a contiuous round hole is machined away in THREE places, creating SIX straight lines within that Hole. Mmmmm, reverberating like a tuning fork during firing................WHY, are 'Designer's' surprised that the componants fails along a straight line?.............A child may well possibly have worked that one out?.....................HOW many Tons per square inch does the .50" Browning round generate?......................NOT really difficult, is it?......

A few original spec Fifties, were gifted to museums, as per normal practice. Peter will confirm this I am confident!

Morning Tankhunter,

A friend of mine works for an engineering company that supplies digital measuring and calibrating equipment to the same company, he was surprised when he entered the workshop to find new BMG's in production....I wonder if anyone has told Browning, afterall we do have a history of blatant copying in this country SA80-AR18, Sterling SMG, Enfield .38 revolvers to name a but a few!

[browningautorifle]

Fxxxxxg hell....., just how simple CAN it be?

Sure there WERE some that struggled to headspace and time them, but not all of us found them elusive. (The 1919A4 could be worse for some) Besides, with a good condition barrel, these don't wear our without warning. They don't need to be changed at high speed. After action will do fine. The use of near worn out barrels was a peacetime flaw from a bureaucratic poor army. I wouldn't go looking for trouble with a barrel that won't take the full weight of an extended firefight.

[Brit plumber]

Heres some time served M2s, ex ranging guns and one which has had the original manufacturers markings removed (Looks to have been of Fridgidair manufacturing).







I know from my visit in 2010 that there is a M2HB on the AA 4 legged mount thing outside the Royal Enginner/RAF regiment building at mount Pleasant, I believe it may be ex Argentine though.

And because I love sectioned guns, here is my sectioned M2