My first K98 - 1942 bnz

[Oh-Six]

K98 photo gallery

Gentlemen, My name is Marv and have been into WW2 rifles for about a year now. A year ago my son returned home from the Marine Corp. After about a month at home, he began to miss his carry weapon. We started going to gun shops and with the purchase of my first Mosin I was hooked. I have about six variations of the mosin and my favorite right now is my M1 Garand. I don't look for the collector's grade rifles but good shooter that represent the past. I have recently purchased my first German weapon. It is a 1942 bnz.I posted on another board but the responses was limited and left me with more questions than answers. As you can see by the attached pictures it has ZF41 scope mount that appears to be a repro. It also has what appears to be finger grooves cut into the stock. One guy said it was bubba'd but he cannot prove that the carry soldier didn't cut those groove any more that I can prove he did do them. The reciever has both the WaA77 (On the right side) and WaA623 (On top of the receiver above the bnz). One gentleman said because of the small font this is a Radon built rifle, If this is correct, why is the WaA623 on the reciever also? The numbers on the stock do not match the rifle. Is this the correct style stock for the bnz or should it have a cupped stock? There is no import marks on the rifle. It is not a RC. Is the fact that it is not a RC a plus? The barrel has strong grooves and no pitting. I paid 300 for this rifle and it was well worth it to me. Any information you have would be awesome, thanks for your time!

Information

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[GUTS]

Hi Marv, In 1942 the final acceptance proof was moved to the top of the receiver ring above the "bnz" code. The 633 proofed parts were made by Steyr and the 77 proofed parts were made by Radom. In 1942 the 77 proofs appeared in increasing numbers, usually on the rear sights, trigger guards, floorplates, bands and bolts. All metal parts should be milled and proofed. The stock on your rifle(if original to the rifle)should be numbered internally and externally and have a cupped buttplate, 1941 was the last year of the flat buttplate at the Steyr factory where actually both cupped and flat were used for 1941. Without examining the rifle first hand I hesitate to make a call about the scope mount or the grasping grooves. I hope this helps you out a little. Most fellas say that a non-RC rifle is more desireable.

[Oh-Six]

Thank you for your response, my understanding is that the scope mount for the ZF is soldered on, mine is mounted with screws, I'm pretty sure it's a repro. So having both the 77 and the 623 on the receiver would it be correct assuming the receiver was made at Radon and the gun assembled at Steyr? This is what I find most unusual having both proofs on the receiver. The floor plate, trigger guard and sights have matching numbers. The stock does not. The bolt is unknown because I cannot make out the serial number. This rifle has really sparked my interest and I just can't seem to get enough. I'm afraid I'll be buying more of these soon. That is after I find a correct stock for this one. Again thanks for your response GUTS, it is much appreciated!

[Sarge]

You have a Radom receiver assembled at Steyr. It may also have other Radom parts on it.
The ZF 41 mount is a fake and improperly attached! The original scope base was a one piece rear sight sleve with the base milled onto it. NO Steyr rifles were assembled as ZF 41 sharp shooter rifles. The stock is also not a steyr stock, none of them had finger grooves. A 41 Steyr would have had a cupped butt plate. The bolt is an FN made bolt and will have an eagle 140 on the bottom of the flat. Not a STeyr used bolt. You have a good shooter, but it has no collector value. It is a mismatched rifle and can never be made matching.
Shoot it and enjoy it.
Sarge

[Oh-Six]

Thanks for the input, I really wasn't looking for a collector grade, I enjoy the old guns but I'm not into spending for a premium grade rifle. So looking at that scope mount do you think a ZF 41 scope mount will fit? If so I might get a scope for it. You can get repros online at a fairly decent price. What did you see on the bolt that told you it wasn't a Steyr bolt? Thanks again!

[m4a3sherman]

Well hang tight sarge- OH-SIX, in the pictures I see several matching numbers- how many of them are consistent? i.e. what things do not match. The grooves in the stock look hand-made indeed but the vast majority of bubba rifles look to be lazy jobs and I don't think they would be carving finger grooves in (that can take a lot of work!). Regardless, the stock is likely incorrect even without the grooves. Do not despair however! Depending on how many parts match, you might set out to do a restoration of sorts. The bolt doesn't match, but you can either leave it alone or find a steyr marked bolt, same with the stock. As for the sniper mount.... you might be able to pull it off and plug the holes fairly easily. Let us know what you find out!

[Oh-Six]

The stock definitely doesn't match, it is a four digit number under the barrel. Where else would there be serial numbers? The stock rings have no markings at all. If you can direct me I'll pull it apart tomorrow on my day off and see what I find.

[kar98k]

Where else would there be serial numbers

everywhere. literally. the Germans were psychotic about numbering pieces. pre war rifles even have the trigger guard screws stamped with a serial number

[m4a3sherman]

To take it apart is very simple to. Remove the front band by depressing the bandspring on the side of the stock and slide off the front band (you may need a hammer with a nylon tip. Alternatively, you can use a dowel rod as a proxy between the hammer and metal parts. With the front band off, the spring will lift out from under the rear band and it will also slide forward off the gun. Note, since you have a sight hood, you may need to slide them off as far as they will go and work from there. It isn't terribly hard to get a sight hood on and off but without the tools or know how, it can be difficult. Next, with the barrel bands off, you can remove the rear handguard; it should more or less fall off. Next pull the bolt from the rifle, then unscrew the two action screws on the underside of the trigger guard assembly, making sure of course to align or remove the locking screws if you have them. After taking those screws out, the receiver and barrel will likely just lift out of the stock but the trigger guard might be resistant. If it's loose, pull it out, if not, don't worry about it and move on. Any pictures you can take of the disassembled rifle would help us out a little and as said before, there should be numbers EVERYWHERE. It really is insane how many things are numbered. Lift up your rear sight, pretty much all of the components should be numbered. In fact...

According the Backbone of the Wehrmacht, the following parts should be serialized for a rifle of that make and date:
Barrel
Receiver
Bolt, entirely
Bolt stop/release
Triggerguard assembly including the follower and floorplate
Rear sight leaf and guide
Upper and lower barrel bands
Stock and Buttplate

You can find this list on Page 193.

That is where the parts should be serialized though some exceptions do exist. You should see a complete or the last two digits of your serial number in those places and remember, pictures a virtue!

[Oh-Six]

So this raises another question you mentioned a reference manual. Are there others you would recommend besides the Backbone of the Wehrmacht? Or is this the manual to have?