Grumpy after attempting zeroing....

[spinecracker]

I had a wonderful day at the range late last week. The sun was shining, the birds were chirping (between clips, of course...) and there was hardly anyone around. I set up to zero my Long Branch No.4 Mk.1* at 25 yards (so I could see the bloody target - 100 yards is too far for my aging eyes) using the iron sights and the instructions kindly posted on this website under the technical articles section (full thanks to the correct individuals for their kindness in locating such gems of information). I shot off 2 warm up rounds in the general direction of the target, then fired 8 rounds to work out the elevation correction that would be needed, if any. When I looked at the target, I had a decent grouping, unfortunately the MPI was 6 inches above where it should have been - yikes! (the text states that the rounds should strike 3/4" above the aim point at 25 yards, and 3 inches above the aim point at 100 yards when the rear sight is set to 200 yards). I looked at the foresight already installed, and it is marked "+0.075", so I do not think I have much more adjustment in that direction. Any ideas as to what the heck might be going on, and how I might be able to make such a large adjustment (or should I even bother)?

Information

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[jmoore]

Could be bedding dramas, but its also likely that its ammo related. I've noticed several Enfields that shoot higher w/ lower velocity rounds. 6" at 25yd is quite a bit, though! What's your ammo (Brand, bullet weight, etc.)?

A dinged crown can also move POI w/o destroying accuracy, a washed out one just won't shoot well at all, generally. Bent barrel? Etc. Break out the detective's hat and have fun investigating!

ETA If that's a two position rear sight, I reckon you made sure the short leg was up! Sometimes....

[bradtx]

spinecracker, One alternative is to buy another front sight and build it up with brazing, keeping the original 'as issued'. Another is to aim off, if possible.

It's the minority of rifles that shoot as we wish them to on the first trip to the range. The likely reason is that our facial structure isn't quite like the previous shooter/owner, placing our eye in a different location in the sight line. It's a good sign that the grouping is okay.

I always suggest using UMC ammo to baseline a 'new' rifle, as it shoots much like good Mk.VII in a comparo I made. I'm not a big fan of 25 yd., or even 50 yd. shooting, preferring to start at 100 yds., just me, not a condemnation.

Brad

[spinecracker]

ETA If that's a two position rear sight, I reckon you made sure the short leg was up! Sometimes....

Yep, I did make sure of that . I did read Mr. Laidler's discussion on fore sights before heading off to the range, and I will try the different ammunition. I had been shooting with S&B 180grs FMJ. The reason for starting the zeroing process at 25 yards was to make sure that the rounds even hit the target, then I was going to move out to 100 yards for fine tuning.

[Edward Horton]

It also helps not to listen to Rap music when sighting in your rifles.
(it effects head movement)



Question, can you insert a feeler gauge between the rear of the fore stock and the receiver socket?



Also try removing the front trigger guard screw bushing and shoot the rifle without it, if the POI changes your Enfield is telling you something.



Remember the British are famous for keeping a stiff upper...................barrel

[spinecracker]

It also helps not to listen to Rap music when sighting in your rifles.
(it effects head movement)



Question, can you insert a feeler gauge between the rear of the fore stock and the receiver socket?



Also try removing the front trigger guard screw bushing and shoot the rifle without it, if the POI changes your Enfield is telling you something.



Remember the British are famous for keeping a stiff upper...................barrel

Wouldn't you know it? I have this amazing ability to find rifles with dodgy fore-ends :P

My latest purchase, a 1943 BSA No.4 Mk1, FTR'ed in 1949 (not upgraded to Mk. 1/2) has a gap on either side between the rear of the fore-end and the receiver socket that I can slide a bit of paper into (it was all I had to hand, haven't had time to buy feeler gauges, and it worked well enough to show me there was a problem), and the underside of the front of the barrel is pressing against the upper hand guard, not the fore-end. I haven't shot it yet. It looks like the fore-end had the angled draws replaced/repaired, probably during the FTR (it is a professional-looking job). I removed the front trigger guard screw bushing and reassembled and lo and hold! The front of the barrel is now contacting the front of the fore-end properly and is free of the upper hand guard, but the gap is still present between the rear of the fore-end and the receiver socket. I am researching my options (yes, I have found plenty of good information on this forum - boy, you guys know your stuff!), but on first glance it looks like I have to close the gap between the rear of the fore-end and the receiver socket, and that would appear to involve making modifications to the previously repaired angled draws. Next step would be to see how the changes affect the rest of the bedding points. I do not want to replace the fore-end as it is serial number-matched to the rifle. I have not shot this rifle yet, but I would like as many creases ironed out before I start blasting away. Comments would be appreciated before I make a pig's ear out of this

Edit - I just read Mr. Laidler's comments regarding fitting fore-ends, and it looks like I just need to trim down the front trigger guard screw bushing/collar a gnat's nadger, and that the gap between fore-end and the receiver socket may be aceptable ("If, after a days shooting, a gap between the rear of the fore-end and face of the butt socket opens up, up to .010”, then this is acceptable providing that there’s no noticeable play fore and aft (there won’t be if you’ve adjusted the collar correctly …) and the correct bearings at the reinforce, draws, magazine well sides and muzzle are intact. - "Fitting a fore-end correctly" by Peter Laidler, posted 5 Jan 2008 on "Replacing Wood Furniture on No4 MK2" thread).

[Peter Laidler]

Before you do anything spinecracker, test the rifle with some good old 1955 or so RL, RG or K. ex surplus UK military ammo. This is what it was designed to shoot. If it shoots this all over the place, then you know that it's the rifle. Before you go brazing the foresight blade higher, you could read an old thread on this forum about a later foresight block, raised by .040". This cured your rifle problem when they were shooting high in UK Military service.

An alternative is to find some old Sten blades as they went past .075" to .090" and .105" but in all honesty, try the correct ammo first then read the old thread

[spinecracker]

Anyone have any idea of a good source for the ammunition mentioned by Mr. Laidler?

[spinecracker]

Does anyone know a source of the later, raised foresight block and the Sten blades mentioned by Mr. Laidler?

[Peter Laidler]

If it is still high after you have used the Radway Green/Kynoch/RL Woolwich ammo and done the checks suggested by Ed H, come back to see me and I expect that the Armourers shop will be able to help with a high block, band, foresight. But I suspect that it's a fore-end fitting problem