Volley sights?

[sdh1911]

Could anybody tell me a little about the volley sights used on early Enfield Rifles. What I am thinking is what was the distance the sight was set for, was there any add-ons used with the rear sight, have you ever used one and were they effective.-SDH

Information

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[Claven2]

You'd need at least a 2000 yard range to use a volley sight, so I doubt anyone here has used one. They aren't meant to be accurate.

Large formations would use volley sights to pepper a distant area with disrupting fire.

The Machinegun largely replaced volley sights in this role

[Badger]

Extracted from the England - Milsurp Knowledge Library section.

Enfield Dial Sights (Variations)

Top row, left to right:

Unmarked, 1800-3500 yd. range, used on Lee-Metford Mk. I
Unmarked, 1600-2900 yd. range, used on Lee-Metford Mk. I*
Marked “II”, 1600-2800 yd. range, used on Lee-Metford Mk. II & II*, (Long) Lee-Enfield Mk. I & I*, and Charger Loaders sighted for Mk. II & Mk. VI ball

Second row, left to right:

Marked “I”, 1600-2800 yd. range, used on some commercial Long Lees (also seen unmarked)
Marked “CL” 1700-2700 yard range, used on Charger Loaders sighted for Mk. VII ball
Marked “LES”, 1600-2800 yd. range, used on early Short Lees sighted for Mk. II & Mk. VI ball

Bottom row, left to right:

Marked “LES2”, 1700-2800 yd. range, used on early Short Lees with the c.1910 sight modifications for Mk. VII ball
Marked “LES III”, 1600-2800 yd. range, used on later Short Lees originally sighted for Mk. VII ball
Unmarked, 1500-2600 yard range, extra long pointer, used on P14s.

[5thBatt]

Extracted from the England - Milsurp Knowledge Library section.

Correction on the Volley sights.
LES is for the Mk1/Mk1* SMLE sighted for MkVI
LES III is for the MkIII SMLE sighted for MkVI & is not actually marked LES III, it is just marked LES, it just happens to have a III stamped on it to designate it as being for the MkIII
LES2 is for ALL SMLEs sighted for MkVII ammo

[sdh1911]

Seems a bit optimistic, but, with a stroke of luck it could produce less enemy solders to have to deal with. This could also be said for about 95% of the ladder sights you see on most milsurp rifles, I think the sights are there to make the solders feel better rather than a practical application, but, hey should one shot connect, its all paid for. SDH

[Paul S.]

Seems a bit optimistic, but, with a stroke of luck it could produce less enemy solders to have to deal with. This could also be said for about 95% of the ladder sights you see on most milsurp rifles, I think the sights are there to make the solders feel better rather than a practical application, but, hey should one shot connect, its all paid for. SDH

Actually it could be and was very effective.

Think tactically. You command a company of infantry in a defensive position, say the South African Veldt (Boer War). Advancing towards you is a larger body of enemy troops still in formation - on foot or mounted (given the rule of thumb for attacking a defensive position is a 3:1 ratio in favour of the attackers). You may or may not have machine guns. Your choice is to use the machine guns at distance (indirect fire role) and exhaust their ammunition supply, or hold them in reserve for close defence, crossing direct fire and use plunging rifle volley fire at range to reduce, slow and possibly deter the enemy force. Arranging a platoon in ranks, your firing order is to set sights for X distance, one round, volley, fire, reload, sights at X-z, one round, volley, fire, .... The enemy body of troops is confronted with repeated volleys of 30 to 40 rounds plunging into their ranks even if they are in low ground.

I will add that the magazine cut-off was there specifically for volley fire use, thereby keeping the magazine full for close defence direct fire.

[Claven2]

Bear in mind, a volley sight attack would involve dozens of brits lined up in formation emptying 10 round mags with most rounds landing in a one acre square or so.

It was so effective in the opening months of WW1 in fall of 1914 that many German units mistakenly believed their positions had been pre-sighted by British machineguns.

Bear in mind tht WW1 didn't devolve into a trench war until the spring of 1915 Once both sides entrenched, volley fire became essentially useless. IT worked best against large formations of troops on the move. As always, the brits planned for the previous European war - in this case Napoleonic style strugges between massive troop formations in the open fields of Europe. They still believed a future European war would follow civilized notions of gallant struggle, unlike the Africans and their debased ungentlemanly conduct during the Boer War.

Some things never change...

[green]

Auxilliary long range sights were a feature on Belgian, Danish and Austrian rifles as well as Britain.

[Doug2500]

I recently purchased one of these that was advertised as No. 1 Mk III front volley sight. I got it the other day and it appears to be for a P14. Range is 1500-2600 yards and the arm looks longer than the ones in the photos. Appears to be Remington(R) marked on the back of the plate and the arm too.

I'm not too disappointed because I have a P14 this can go on, and the price was pretty good. My P14 already has the plate, stock screw, arm screw, and spring, so I just really needed the arm.

My No. 1 Mk III has the sight plate (1600-2600 yards) and stock screw, but no arm, arm screw, or spring. Are the arm screws and spring interchangeable on these?

If so, anybody know where a can buy just the arm?

[peregrinvs]

New made P14 and SMLE dial sight parts:

Lee Enfield Rifles for sale - EFD Rifles - the Lee Enfield rifle specialists