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Help an Enfield Newbie get started with first rifle?
I just bought this Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk 2 rifle, my first British battle rifle. Markings on the receiver are: 303 British, United Kingdom
, IAC ALFX VA (preceding group very difficult to read), then, 12/49 PF 165255 . On the butt stock these numbers are stenciled in white paint: 7.F 5/G7. Stamped on the top left of trigger guard are numerals: 51. On the left side of the wrist/stock band are a small stamped arrow with n/c5 stamped below it, and finally there is a small “s” stamped on the right side bottom of the same band.
On the underside of the forward stock, just a couple of inches from the muzzle, I can barely make out a number (wood may have been sanded & refinished at some time) which seem to be: 53053
So, was my rifle made in Dec. of 1949? What does “PF” indicate? Do I understand correctly that the serial number is 165255 ? Do the other numbers tell of anything significant about this rifle?
I am amazed and somewhat intimidated by the vast amount of information online about Enfield Rifles
. Indeed, so much that I have not been able to locate any type of operation, disassembly or re-assembly information yet. I would also be interested in a supplier of parts, if such are available. Could anyone get me started with links for a basic manual and parts?
Thanks in advance to anyone who can get me started in learning about my first Enfield!
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11-14-2010 02:04 AM
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Allred, I'm afraid the marking on the butt is the rifle's death sentence. ZF means it has been found to have a problem with the receiver that is not repairable and has been passed up the line, gauged and marked as such by a senior inspector. 5/67 may even be the date of it being sentenced for scrap.
Here's a link to a previous thread on the topic of DP or Drill Purpose rifles. It mentions many rifles were selected for downgrading to DP and not being allowed to fire live ammunition- as I understand, this is what the ZF (scrapped) rifles were kept for.
DP rifles
PS... Like many, you may have posted the same question on other forums- nothing wrong with getting a few opinions, especially when you are new to a topic. But on the topic of a rifle marked ZF, PLEASE check back here to have confirmed anything you might get told elsewhere.... I'm trying to be diplomatic here- it hurts.
Last edited by Son; 11-14-2010 at 04:13 AM.
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And another thread on ZF rifles... marking on Enfields?
I suggest getting your money back on this rifle.
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Thank You to Baal For This Useful Post:
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Thankyou Baal, I just spent ages looking for that one and couldn't find it..
Allred, check out the link from Baal first, take note of the respondents. I have a ZF No4 too, (as you will see). Mine will never be fired...
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You need to get your money back if they sold it to you as a shooter, ZF means condemmed in non gun language. Remind them that if they sold it to you as a shooter, and you shoot it and get hurt, they will go to jail, after you sue them, if you're alive.
Sorry, but the gents are correct and we've recently had a bad story with one of these. Its a wall hanger.
Browse gunbroker.com for comparative info on other enfields, and try enfield resource.com for lists of 150 sites about enfields.
Last edited by RJW NZ; 11-14-2010 at 04:12 AM.
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GOOD advice here allred. I know a bit about this mark from the Army point of view and it's right. It's the death sentence and the 5/67 is the date.
More good advice. 1)DO NOT use it, ever and
2) Don't invade Russia
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I'm just glad Allred checked here first before putting a round down the chamber.
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Oh, unwelcome news to be sure! But news and caution I am grateful to be aware of. I will indeed endeavor to return this rifle to the seller for a full refund.
However , I do wonder, if a an unrepairable problem existed with the receiver, why wouldn't a mark be stamped there in addition to the painted mark on the butt stock?
The butt stock on this rifle is noticably darker in finish compared to the fore-stock and hand guard. Perhaps the butt stock and it's ZF mark came from another rifle? Wishful thinking I suppose. Still it seems a receiver marking would be more definitive. Any further thoughts?
In any case thank you all very much for the feedback and cautions. This rifle will be a non-shooter and or return, unless some other verifiable condition can be reliably determined. ![Frown](images/smilies/frown.gif)
![Quote](images/tacticalgamer/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
Son
Allred, I'm afraid the marking on the butt is the rifle's death sentence. ZF means it has been found to have a problem with the receiver that is not repairable and has been passed up the line, gauged and marked as such by a senior inspector. 5/67 may even be the date of it being sentenced for scrap.
Here's a link to a previous thread on the topic of DP or Drill Purpose rifles. It mentions many rifles were selected for downgrading to DP and not being allowed to fire live ammunition- as I understand, this is what the ZF (scrapped) rifles were kept for.
DP rifles
PS... Like many, you may have posted the same question on other forums- nothing wrong with getting a few opinions, especially when you are new to a topic. But on the topic of a rifle marked ZF,
PLEASE check back here to have confirmed anything you might get told elsewhere.... I'm trying to be diplomatic here- it hurts.
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Legacy Member
Anything is possible as far as swapping butts, but the fact that this rifle has the 300/600 flip sight is a clue to me. Your rifle had the ladder sight, and never were issued (AFAIK) with that flip site. I believe I read somewhere that the usable parts were taken from ZF rifles (Mr. Laidler
????) when so condemned.
I need a ZF for my collection....(hint, hint).
If you are really interested in Enfields, I'd recommend you buy a book, The Lee-Enfield Story.
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In such circumstances, I would not take any chances and would never assume that the buttstock had been changed at some point - I need my eyes and my hands, and I do not need to leave behind a widow and orphans.
By the way, who is IAC (importer)?
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