Found on The PH5A on my No.1

[Rumpelhardt]

Bisley Works ABA
Is this a common stamping on Parker Hale sights on Fulton rifles? Completelytly missed it before.

Information

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[muffett.2008]

The stamp reads BISLEYWORKS AGP
This is the stamp of Alfred G. Parker, son of Alfred Gray Parker and father of Alfred J. Parker and was used from 1913 until 1930 when the company name changed to Parker Hale, recognising the influence of the Hale family in the company. A.T.C. Hale being a nephew of A.G. Parker and they gradually took over the running of the business.
It was a falling out over this sight that saw A.J. Parker break away and form his own business in 1928.

[Rumpelhardt]

Thank you for the information.
Could this possibly help date my BSA Commercial rifle? At least help make an educated guess?

[RJW NZ]

Try a search here, someone let me know about 4 weeks ago how to find stamps on the barrel that may have a date stamp, sadly mine didn't have them. The type of 5a site might be an indicator if it was on the rifle when new.

[Rumpelhardt]

Are you referring to the Birmingham crossed scepters? Looked but no luck.
As far as I can find the Rifle was bought new from Fulton's by a man from Canada for use as a target rifle. I am making the assumption that the sight is original to the rifle.

[muffett.2008]

Check the sight assembly marks, as AGP was in overlap with PH at this time a single matching assembly mark will put it in the 1928-29 bracket, 2 numbers will have it in the overlap period of 1929-30.(best I can offer)

[Peter Laidler]

Amazing............ Where do you blokes get all of this obscure info from? And how do you retain it all................?

[newcastle]

Does anyone know the link between this type sight and the reason behind the falling out. always interesting to hear about the vaguely Enfiled related history.

[muffett.2008]

The family breakup was a two edged problem, young A.J was the design brains in the family, as his Uncle (A.T.C.Hale) began to have a greater influence in the business, A.J was pushed further back in the chain, recognition for his work became almost non existant.
In 1924 A.C Hale (cousin)joined the firm and immediatley jumped up the management scale, pushing A.J out of the limelight altogether.
A.J had just completed his initial designs for the No.5 sight and was adding improvements, but found that the patent design names had been changed to show Hale.
Now as young Alfred and his cousin never saw eye to eye, this created a family furore, ending in A.J quitting the family company and commencing his own business in 1927-28.
You may note that most of the sight material suddenly disappeared from A.G Parker Catalogues other than those marked AGP until the mid 30's, this was due to proceedings over patent rights, and was only sorted by the direct intervention of female members of the family.
A licence agreement was entered into allowing the three major stakeholders, A.G Parker (BisleyWorks), A.J Parker and A.T.C Hale to use pre- existing designs. So you will find sights of the period with any three of those markings.
This period saw some intense competition between Hale and Parker, A.J. pushed out his TZ in 1928, Hale hit back with the Plus 5(+5) a year later and then it was open slather, the 6A and the 6 series, 5b to 5e, the TZ's and it's family. (Great for us sight collectors)
By 1930 the Hale influence was to great for the ageing A.G., A.T.C became chairman of the company, A.C jumped into the managers job and by 1936 the company name changed to PARKER HALE. With no signs of a reconciliation, A.G. Parker died in 1939.
A.J Parker conducted a successfull business until his death in 1975 and was run by his daughter until finally going into recievership in 1999.
PH continued on it's blithering way, gradually losing business under the guidance of the Hale family, until finally fading into obscurity.......by this time I had lost interest.

[newcastle]

Funny thing is that AJ parker and Co had a place on Old Mosely road near Briingham as late as 2004 - i was in contact with them about parts for No.1 Mk.3 rifles that they had a ton of - unfortunately I had reckoned without teh daft UK laws regarding exporting proofed parts so the bits I wanted I couldnt' get