Range Questions: Gew 71 versus Gew 71/84

[rescuerandy2]

Just back from finally being able to shoot the 71 and 71/84 together. I had a great time and the guys down range should have brought their gas masks. t was a blast but I do have a few questions from the comparison: 1. Does your 71/84 produce way more smoke than your 71? 2. Does your 71 jam/foul much faster than your 71/84? 3. Which one produces the most fouling in the barrel? Please note I did shoot black powder rounds all made at the same time. Thanks, Randy

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[Patrick Chadwick]

The M71 was introduced with a round-nose bullet. Contrary to conventional wisdom, the tubular magazine of the 71/84 did not make a flat-nose bullet mandatory. But the stronger striker spring of the M71/84 required an improved (tougher) primer cup (Storz, "Deutsche Militärgewehre" Volume 1, P.343). The flat nose bullet was in fact introduced a year later, and there was (officially) no difference in the ballistic performance of the two types (I interpret that as "not discernible at the ranges actually used in practice").

I also have a comprehensive history of the M71 ammo (private publication of the Patronensammlervereinigung e.V), which includes photos of ammo packs marked with "20 Scharfe Patronen M/71" and "Zündhütchen M/71.84". The Zündhütchen (primer) was the decisive difference. Up to 1888 the Prussian troops equipped with M71/84 rifles were still being issued 75% of ammo with the older M/71 primer. From 1888 on only the new type was issued. According to Storz, there never was such a thing as a "Scharfe Patrone m/71.84".

Finally, there is only one set of standard dimensions for bore/grooves and the 11,15x60R cartridge used in both the M/71 and the M/71.84. Any supposed differences in nominal bore size when manufactured will by now have been swamped by the differences in wear between individual rifles.

Using the same ammo in bores with the same nominal dimensions, I therefore see no reason for there to be a difference in the fouling performance between the two types of rifle. Any difference that you may observe in fouling is more likely to be caused by differences in the quality of the bore surface than any other factor, i.e. a difference between individual rifles, not a systematic type difference.

---------- Post added at 01:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 AM ----------

Does your 71 jam/foul much faster than your 71/84?

Neither of them should jam.

If the fouling builds up enough to prevent the cartridge chambering properly, then you have 1) insufficient lubricant (I recommend about 1/2 cc of non-mineral grease) or 2) the bullet seated too far forwards (I advise 1mm clear of the lands) or both! Observe these points, and you should be able to happily shoot your smoke-generator until the nitro pea shooters beg you to stop so that they can see their targets again. BP-shooters are more resilient, and simply wait for a gap in the fog!

[rescuerandy2]

Thanks Patrick. Will check the bullet depth seating tomorrow. Randy

[rescuerandy2]

Patrick, I thought Nebelwerfers were a WWII creation? Randy