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1921 Lithgow No. 1 Mk III Unfired
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11-23-2013 12:23 AM
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Mate thanks for taking the time to post pictures. It's a very nice looking gun and I won't make any comments regarding the unfired label. The forend and handguards are coachwood so your rifle has had an overhaul or some degree of repairs. I would think it not likely to have had its wood replaced unless its done some work, the question is when was the wood replaced. Can you take a picture or give us a description of the butt. The butt certainly looks well used.
I think also the metal has been refinished so maybe this rifle was refurbished wartime. Does it have a date stamped into the butt like 5/44 or similar?
Last edited by Homer; 11-23-2013 at 02:41 AM.
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Contributing Member
I forgot this one
Hi Homer,
I know the unfired bit would have a few heads going but on the reinforce it is stamped 9 '21 there is also nothing else I can see on it that shouts a full FTR. Only it was in there on 5/44 the other 4 is also stamped on the reinforce so it could be 4MD but unclear
If the rifle and Brl had been fully FTR'ed then it would have a different date on it like my other 1916 which has a '43 brl in it I think but quite understandable.
The front band if EFD but this in the replacement of the fore woods is ok as in an armoury I doubt anything follows its originality. If you look at the action like the bolt racer and where the b-head rail is (I will call it that and suffer no doubt LOL) not even shiny.
Anyway here is the pic of the butt also No.ed to the rifle.
Thanks for the reply, I await the good smacking I will get for calling it a bolt head rail ??
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Legacy Member
Not physic but I've had a number of rifles over the years identical to yours that were overhauled around the 5/44. The actions were mostly dated from early 20's and very little was replaced except for the forend. My thoughts were that they were rifles that had had little use, hence retaining the original barrels, but had damaged forends possibly due to not having recoil inserts installed from new. By mid 1944, the production of new rifles was ramping down so perhaps it was a good time to overhaul a few rifles that had minor defects. These are just my thoughts gents.
Apart from the general appearance of your gun, the only indicator that these rifles were refurbished is the date stamped into the butt and it is only a date. Rifles that are stamped FTR, were refurbished between 1950 and 1959/60 and these FTR'd rifles differ in appearance to yours. Most notable difference is , the rifles done in 1944 mostly retained original parts and only those parts that needed replacing were replaced like forends. Rifles that were FTR'd in the 50's were stripped to the action, reparkerised and completely built up into new rifles using new and used parts. Even bolts were replaced in many cases. Old serial numbers on used numbered parts like nosecaps and bolts were scrubbed and renumbered to match the action. I've also seen reused barrels, with old numbers lined out and renumbered. Forends were always new replacements but butts may be new or used. In the case where a used butt was reused, all stamps from the previous rifle were removed and remained bare. The old markings will still be barely visible in nearly all cases. My view is, it is very unlikely a rifle FTR'd between 1950 and 1960 would retain any original parts from new manufacture.
Cinders your rifle may be unfired from its refurbished date, but the fact that it retains the original 1921 dated barrel is not evidence enough that it is unfired. Still plenty of lithgows this vintage and older that retain original barrels. I've had several. Even the grease that may still be present is not an indicator. As Peter mentioned in a recent thread, rifles were prepared for deep storage and thick amounts of cosmolene were applied inside and out. Also had several of those.
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Cinders your rifle isn't an FTR.
Don't know how rifle and bayonet came together mate. Maybe some bloke 30 years ago was lucky enough to match them up. Seen that happen before. One thing is for certain and that is, your 1921 Lithgow didn't leave the factory like that and I just say it as I see it.
Last edited by Homer; 11-23-2013 at 08:02 AM.
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Contributing Member
Gads I hope it did not leave the factory like that otherwise one could surmise Lithgows QA & QC had done a runner!!!!
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Advisory Panel
The Queensland maple buttstock is the original and the forend and hand guards were replaced in service at some point with coachwood. The QM woodwork wasn't noted for it's inherent strength. The metal looks excellent. It would be Parkerized if it had seen full FTR late or post WWII.
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Yes Brian I agree, it would have been parkerised very late in the war of after. Not sure of the process but the metal on this rifle looks refinished as well and is very typical of rifles refurbished at this time.
Last edited by Homer; 11-23-2013 at 06:02 PM.
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