Singer lot#1795 at RIAC Dec auction?

[westgard]

I noticed that the gun did not sell. Was it pulled from the auction or was there a reserve on the gun (that wasn't met). Anybody know? Just curious....

Information

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[Scott Gahimer]

I was told by thos eattending the auction that the pistol sold at auction. Obviously it did not. That sounds as though the last bid(s) were shill, trying to run somebody on on their bid.

[westgard]

That's amazing, I guess that I shouldn't be surprised. I wonder how you actually can show/prove that is happening??

[Rob Greer]

I just looked on the RIA auction web site where they have a photo preview of the next premier auction. There is a Singer pictured for the upcoming auction. In that picture, it appears to be Serial number S800499, but I could be off by a digit or two... but it is definately in the 400 range.
Rock Island Auction Company

So, it appears that this is another Singer all together.

[JBS]

As late as 1983 we still had a Singer in the arms room of my last unit. It was a HHC and the Commanding Generals for years had forbidden the Singers’ issue to anyone. It just rested in the rack and was brought out for show and tell on request of visiting high ranking officers or NCOs. I can’t remember the Ser anymore.

[westgard]

It seems that a few go through the RIA auction house every year. At this December auction there was a second one that was 'professionally restored' that looks to have sold.

[Rob Greer]

westgard... I don't know if I missed something or not. After I posted above, I started to second guess myself... Did you see somewhere that the Singer did not sell, or did you see a picture of the one that will be in the March auction?

I would very much like to know if it really did sell or not.

[Scott Gahimer]

That's amazing, I guess that I shouldn't be surprised. I wonder how you actually can show/prove that is happening??

I think the place to start would be to ask the auction house if the pistol sold? At the auction, the hammer reportedly was $32,500 and the auctioneer stated "sold". I wasn't there, but heard that from those who said they were there.

When were the results posted? If the pistol was not sold, then there was apparently a reserve on it. If the auctioneer states "sold", that sounds like the gun went through, didn't meet the reserve and the owner had a standing bid, which in my opinion is a shill bid.

Maybe that doesn't bother some people, but I don't like to bid against a shill. IMO, the auction isn't supposed to be receiving shill bids to drive the price up on anything.

Who knows? Maybe somebody bought it and rejected it upon inspection. According to the auction terms, the item had to be misrepresented in the lot title for a buyer to have a return privilege...as I understand the terms.

I don't think there is much to prove. The pistol either sold or it didn't. If it did not transfer hands, it did not sell. If id did not sell, where did the $32,500 bid come from? And why did the auctioneer state "sold"?

[westgard]

I assumed that it did not sell, since in the document listing the auction results, they do not have that item number listed along with the price realized. (this is the .pdf file of the results, as well as the web page listing the results). I just concluded that there was no transaction on the gun, even though it also says "Lot Sold" on the web site. In my experience, that is the case if it's not listed in the final 'prices realized' document.


If the seller puts in a bid on the gun to make sure it meets a minimum, and then it doesn't in fact get bid on or bought by someone else, he'd get killed with the premiums - having essentially sold AND then bought the gun himself. But you never know what back room deals are done with the auction house(s) on such high profile pieces. Someone would have to inquire directly with the auction house, assuming that they would tell what went on.

[oldcanuck]

Someone would have to inquire directly with the auction house, assuming that they would tell what went on.

Not likely.... if the cat was out of the bag, they would loose most of their bidders.