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    Plum patina?

    I have a dot 44, the extractor has, what has been described as having "plum patina". Did it leave Brunn like that, or what causes this? I think it looks good like that myself. Merry Christmas, Matt
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    different types storage packing grease have different chemical make-up's and after applying and storing away for who knows how long will cause a color variation to the original finish

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    Bright or dull "plum"?

    A picture would have been helpful!

    There are two possibilities
    1) A dull surface: the so-called
    Quote Originally Posted by hcso617 View Post
    "plum patina".
    - which is the expression used by those dealers who like to think of themselves as "purveyors of fine antiques to the discerning gentry", rather than as sellers of old tools of a military nature, to describe what the rest of us would call "old bluing going to rust".

    Quote Originally Posted by hcso617 View Post
    or what causes this?
    As already said, the bluing turning to plain rust.

    OR

    2) If it is a bright, translucent surface:
    SOME some Mauser parts had a different steel alloy to the rest of the bolt assembly. And these turned a brownish color when they went through the same heat treatment as the "standard" steels (whatever that was). I have one such, on a Gew98 system, and have seen the same on other 98-family extractors and the triggers and safety levers on Lugers (including my own). But this is not a patina, it is a "bluing" from the heat treatment that came out brown! You can see the difference, because the "browning" is translucent, like bluing.

    Quote Originally Posted by hcso617 View Post
    Did it leave Brunn like that,
    Not unless it was the "browning" kind of bluing. Any so-called "plum" patina is dull. Like rust. Because that is what it is.

    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 12-24-2010 at 04:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick View Post
    2) If it is a bright, translucent surface: SOME some Mauser parts had a different steel alloy to the rest of the bolt assembly. And these turned a brownish color when they went through the same heat treatment as the "standard" steels (whatever that was). I have one such, on a Gew98 system, and have seen the same on other 98-family extractors and the triggers and safety levers on Lugers (including my own). But this is not a patina, it is a "bluing" from the heat treatment that came out brown! You can see the difference, because the "browning" is translucent, like bluing.
    I've seen a few K98kicon's with this sort of heat treat colour on the extractor, but most of them seem to be on refinished "Russianicon Captured" rifles. On RC rifles I think it's just bluing gone wrong.

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    I have a Sovieticon TT33 pistol dated 1937 and original.It has a plum slide and never refinished. All it takes is a bit too much nickel in the alloy to produce said results. I'll take a picture later. Gary

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    My RC has a plum colored extractor. It's not rust, it's the color of the metal. Same thing on the flat side of the ejector/bolt release cover. Both are a light reddish purple color, translucent, like bluing but not nearly as dark.

    Mine is also a dot 44 and photos have been posted here:

    Russian Capture k98
    Last edited by Aragorn243; 12-24-2010 at 06:22 PM.

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    I believe it's the makeup of the steel used in the extractor that makes it accept the blueing differently than other parts of the rifle. I've got definite "bringback" mausers that have this anomaly. Italianicon Beretta 34 & 35 slides often appear plum for the same reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Len View Post
    I believe it's the makeup of the steel used in the extractor that makes it accept the blueing differently than other parts of the rifle. I've got definite "bringback" mausers that have this anomaly. Italianicon Beretta 34 & 35 slides often appear plum for the same reason.
    Those pistols are one of the few milsurps where plum colouration is considered correct for a "blued" part. Otherwise "plum" is only good as a tempered spring heat treat side effect.

    Ruger rifle receivers (No.1s and M77s) were sometimes plum coloured from the factory, but I don't think it's especially pertinent. Just "heading it off at the pass"...


    ETA: Other "plum" springs that come to mind which sometimes appear to be correct: 1871 and 71/84 Mausers. Ross rifles. Not much else...
    That and some old Michigan Armament 1911 slides. (Which aren't springs, obviously!)
    Last edited by jmoore; 12-24-2010 at 09:21 PM.

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    Aragorn, that's it. Thanks for the info men. Merry Christmas, Matt
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    It is a combination of the hardness/alloy of the steel plus the condition and temperature of the bluing salts at the time it was blued. The plum color will show up from time to time on Mauser P.08 receivers, and is a result of the condition of the bluing solution. This does not happen with rust blued weapons.
    Model 1897 Winchester receivers and barrels were notorious for turning plum colored when reblued in hot salt blue and is mostly the result of the nickel steel alloy they were using. The original finish on the Model 1897 was niter blue on the receiver and rust blue on the barrel.
    This is a byf44 with a very plum extractor.


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