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Thread: Inspection Stamp Quiz

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  1. #21
    Senior Member Bodyman's Avatar
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    There is no information flow ...

    Quote Originally Posted by snapperm1c View Post

    So what I'm saying is, unless examples of correct and fakes are placed side by side, and errors pointed out, there really is no information flow.

    SN1
    Perhaps the link below is a long winded response, but the short version is that the only way to not educate those that you are trying to thwart is that each individual has to do a great deal of work to figure it out themself, just like the "experts" did. We, (if I may) all made it up as we went along - why not you? Some ideas are good some aren't - most of them are not new. But to keep ahead in this cat and mouse game, most folks have realized the value of keeping their "cards close to their vests", so to speak ... Not to say that ideas are not shared and that there is not "information flow", it is just not flowed on the Internet any more.

    Back in the day it was truly nasty. To call the posts on these subjects merely "vitriolic" is understating it by a long shot. Believe it or not, I actually had counsel (yes, an attorney and fellow collector) review some of my posts before I posted them! He told me I was insane to continue, but continue we did - all of us.

    This is my response as to why information does not flow freely (at least here on the Internet any more (sorry)) and what those concerned need to do about it for themselves ...;

    http://www.bulletinboards.com/TreeMs...UseNoFrame=yes



    Best regards all.

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  4. #22
    Really Senior Member Ramboueille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapperm1c View Post
    No need to get defensive, Rick, the post was not meant to inflame. But for over 10 years on Joustericon I've watched these Cartouche posts come up again and again, with almost no definitive things to look for on particular cartouches.

    There are the obvious ones, like the famous "Snoopy", and clearly some with new wood, etc.

    Sometimes the answer is that, for example, the letters are misaligned, or of improper shape, without giving an example of a "correct" cartouche.

    So what I'm saying is, unless examples of correct and fakes are placed side by side, and errors pointed out, there really is no information flow.

    But if you do that, then of course you run the risk of educating a faker.

    So I don't really see any point to these quizzes unless you describe the specific things about the fake and tell us what the real one should look like.

    That way, the vast, overwhelming majority of us will be wiser the next time we are contemplating a purchase.

    And you will have conributed greatly to the collector community.

    Sure, there will be humpers, but the rest of us will be smarter...

    SN1
    In the same vein, one can also "beat the bricks" themselves and do their own evaluations and research by going to gun shows, surplus dealers or importers and going through a few thousand stocks or even buying the occasional nice rifle and gathering their own photos from the Internet. Surely enough time has passed in your 20 years of collecting to have garnered some idea of what is fake and what is not, perhaps not 100%, but at least to improve the perceptions of what you have now.

    You can always contact Rick Bicon. privately for an assessment or evaluation, can't you? I have quite a few times.

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  6. #23
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    Thanks Guys I appreciate the good words on this sour issue. I have not given up the good fight to help find the forgeries and in the past taken plenty of flak with many of you.

    Ok here is the 2nd part of the test. Number one is a FAKE and below is the comparison. Under the pics states Authentic and fake. I would like to see as I put them up slowly if people can see the differences on them before I spot a few out. By the way the real one is from Bodyman's pictures Rick Bicon


    Authentic Stamping ------------------------------------------------------- Fake Stamping

    Here are the cannons close-up which are a dead give away.
    Last edited by Badger; 03-10-2010 at 02:17 PM. Reason: Added credit for picture

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  8. #24
    Contributing Member Mark in Rochester's Avatar
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    Fake

    has a pointed "A" vs flat top A

    top horizontal of F finishes to soon
    There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet.

  9. #25
    Member snapperm1c's Avatar
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    Rick,

    This is exactly what I'm lookiong for. You don't need to point oout all the characteristics, just set them side by side and I can do the rest.

    The most striking feature to me on this one is the slightly flat-topped "A" in the original. I have one just like it from a CMPicon rifle.

    Also the shape of the "F", and others.

    On the cannons, the fake has a wider "breech" area, IMO, and the uneven muzzles, trunnion location/shape...

    But this is very valuable, just placing the fakes and corrects side by side is actually a big help. Now, on those more elusive stamps, where parts are missing or rubbed off, things get a little trickier.

    Thanks, Rick, I appreciate it.

  10. #26
    Member snapperm1c's Avatar
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    I'm refining my guess...

    In addition to #1 being fake,
    GHS:
    2, Fake
    5 Fake
    6 real
    11 real

    McF:
    4 real
    9 fake
    10 real
    8 real

    Although my WIN-13 has no periods between the letters...

    SN1

  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapperm1c View Post
    I'm refining my guess...

    In addition to #1 being fake,
    GHS:
    2, Fake
    5 Fake
    6 real
    11 real

    McF:
    4 real
    9 fake
    10 real
    8 real

    Although my WIN-13 has no periods between the letters...

    SN1

    13/16"th boxed GHD should not have periods but the 1" inch boxed one does. WB and RS had periods also. Rick Bicon

    P.S. you have 4 wrong in your guess's

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  13. #28
    Member snapperm1c's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Bicon View Post
    13/16"th boxed GHD should not have periods but the 1" inch boxed one does. WB and RS had periods also. Rick B

    P.S. you have 4 wrong in your guess's
    Thanks, Rick,

    Hey, 4 wrongs is less than 50 percent... Looks like I need to go back to school...

    I think my GHS's are all wrong... I'venever seen an original of those. But # 5 has to be fake... I think...
    Last edited by snapperm1c; 10-20-2009 at 11:11 PM.

  14. #29
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    On to the next one. #2 is a fake. This is one Bodyman made mention of and actually both 1 and 2 were part of a huge internet war over fakes. They were stated to have come from a Air force base. I tried so hard to explain to the seller who was friends with the forger in California that the arsenal at Springfield stamped the stocks not some Air Force base in California. He was really bent on suing me and taking me off the boards over me showing him how wrong he was. He actually went on the boards asking everyone to get involved to take me down in a class action lawsuit which I was ready for.

    Well enough on that and Jeff may have some more insight on that whole party fun we had. Allot of people today don't know how hard it was to help in this area back then and even one guy I was turning over was a very wealthy well known to the world person. I didn't care as wrong is wrong when fleecing people out of money.

    Sorry for the small pic on this one but I will put a few larger comparisons up in a little bit but see if you can spot the issues on this one. Rick Bicon




    Fake Cannons--------------------------------Authentic Cannons

    Last edited by Badger; 03-10-2010 at 02:21 PM. Reason: Added another picture

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  16. #30
    Really Senior Member Joe W's Avatar
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    Two things that stand out to me are :
    The cross bar in the letter H. The bar in the fake is lower than the original.
    The cannon ball in original touches the ring, belt, whatever. The fake cannon ball sits much lower.
    I am sure there are a few other things I have not spoted.
    But honestly, if I were not looking at them side by side I don't know if I would spot this for a fake.

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