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Thread: First time at 100 yards with the .22lr

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  1. #11
    Member NMC_EXP's Avatar
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    Nice shooting. 100 yds with .22 RF is challenging.

    I started shooting outdoor smallbore prone matches a couple of years ago. These matches include both 50 and 100 yard stages.

    I have the 'Small Bore Rifle Handbook' by Townsend Whelen, dated 1937. It is no longer popular but they used to have 200 yard slow prone small bore matches. I shot a few of these and it is a hoot. I've heard that a .22 RF at 200 yds has about the same wind drift as a .30 cal at 1000 yds. When you're in the pits it seems like these are coming in like mortar rounds.

    The Whelen book contains a table with angles of elevation for .22 long rifle out to 300 yards (for 1100 f.p.s. std velocity it is 53.7 MOA). Yikes.



    The come ups for 1100 fps std velocity are:

    50 to 100 yds = +8 MOA
    100 to 200 yds = +18 MOA
    “...successful rifle shooting on the range is nothing more than first finding a rifle and lot of ammunition which will do precisely the same thing shot after shot, and then developing the same skill in the rifleman.” ~ E. C. Crossman

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  4. #12
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Who needs modern match rifles?

    This is a test group I shot today with my "cheapo" Enfield No. 8. It had been sporterized, but I was able to get the missing bits from EFD as a birthday present to myself this summer. Both this one (A11003) and its companion (A10198) had previously been tested at the RUAG/RWS facility in Fürth. At 50 meters A10.198 has the edge, all shots touching a 3mm circle when using R50 ammo. That is like hitting a match head, end on, with every shot. To achieve this requires not only finding the right type of ammo, but even selecting a specific batch!

    A11003 needed the R100 for best results, so today, the competition season being effectively over, I finally got round to trying out A11003 at 100 meters, off a sandsack, with the standard Enfield backsight + Parker horizontal adjustment, and a Parker aperture foresight. The result is shown below.

    Only a 5-shot group, as that is quite sufficient to verify the rifle/ammo combination, and I will have to fine-adjust the sight a bit before making further tests. The ammo is just about the best you can get - and very expensive. 250 rounds of R100 cost me more than the rifle as purchased in sporterized condition!

    A further test is obviously required - with a scope. I think this group has reached the limit of what I can do with iron sights.
    Anyway, with results like this from a military trainer, who needs a modern match rifle?

    Patrick

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    Really Senior Member gunner's Avatar
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    Great shooting Patrick

    Thats what i often stated. Most of my milsurps rifles do an equal or better job than modern hunting rifles can do! And if you compare the price and the methods of making, you can assume that there is no advantage from todays gunmakers to the old ones.

    And as i said Patrick it would be great to go at an shooting range with you. Maybe someday?

    I tested the R50R100 and the Lapua Trainer and out of my rifle the cheap Lapua(30Euros/500)
    was the best.

    Cheers

    Gunner
    Regards Ulrich

    Nothing is impossible until you've tried it !

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    Quote Originally Posted by NMC_EXP View Post
    The Whelen book contains a table with angles of elevation for .22 long rifle out to 300 yards (for 1100 f.p.s. std velocity it is 53.7 MOA). Yikes.

    The come ups for 1100 fps std velocity are:

    50 to 100 yds = +8 MOA
    100 to 200 yds = +18 MOA
    I've found most HV .22LR (generally I use hollow points) need right at +6 MOA for 100yds and roughly +14 MOA for 200. I've had many groups at 200 that have only a 2" vertical dispersion, but a 8-12" horizontal spread due to a very minor wind. "Breeze" is way too stong a term. Never got a real group at 300yds the few times I've tried (iron sighted SMLE .22, scoped rifles ran out of adjustment).
    Last edited by jmoore; 09-26-2010 at 09:23 AM.

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  10. #15
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Tried A11003 with a scope today. The scope ran out of elevation before I got right into the center. So I just made a 3-shot group with that awfully expensive ammo to see how it went. The 3 shots had a spread of 11 mm. That is well under 1/2 MOA. When I have fettled the scope to cover the range, I will fire off a statistically more meaningful group and post the results. But I can already say that this No. 8 is the most accurate 100-meter rifle I have ever had.

    For something really different, take a look at this link

    Milsurp After Hours View topic - NEW RANG TO SHOOT AT - SOUGE.

    You can see that the backsight leaf is well up the ladder, but the No. 8 was hitting the target at 300 meters! That is something I am going to try - next time I visit Alsfeld!

    Patrick

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick View Post
    Tried A11003 with a scope today. The scope ran out of elevation before I got right into the center. So I just made a 3-shot group with that awfully expensive ammo to see how it went. The 3 shots had a spread of 11 mm. That is well under 1/2 MOA. When I have fettled the scope to cover the range, I will fire off a statistically more meaningful group and post the results. But I can already say that this No. 8 is the most accurate 100-meter rifle I have ever had.

    !

    Patrick
    1/2MOA!!! You da Man!

    Got you tickled, even w/ just 3 rounds, I reckon.

    One technique to getting good long range groups w/ a .22"RF I learned from a pretty scientific article written in the late 70s- early 80's that appeared in the Gun Digest concerning accuracy testing of rim fire ammo. That is to shoot as fast as can be done so that conditions don't change mid-string. Mind you, this fellow was shooting 50rd groups and using a machine rest, but it does help up to a point.

  13. #17
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    50 rd groups!!!

    50 round groups! Good grief, was that a machine rest or a machine gun???<
    Seriously, there may well be something in that idea - and not only for those who have shares in ammo manufacturers!

    However, I don't think it would help much unless you have a very robust rest, as 50 individually aimed rounds could be spoilt towards the end by eye fatigue, and would test the shooter rather than the ammo. Even the 9x scope I used today was sufficiently powerful to show that the rifle was fluttering a bit, as I only had ordinary sand sacks and had to steady the rifle to keep it upright. I doubt I could hold that 1/2 MOA for a long string. It's going to be necessary to study how the benchresters do it.

    Patrick
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 09-26-2010 at 06:03 PM.

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    Of course, it's known as BR50 for a reason. Short range weinies! Still, they're gun nerds of the first order.

  15. #19
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Enfield No. 8 for BR50?

    (See previous posting)
    As planned, I adjusted the scope fitting and centered the shots for 100 meters. On the target shown below, the two blanked-out 8s are the first sighters (3 shots) the 9/10 is the first correction, and as the next shot was the 10x at 12 o'clock, I continued to make a 5 shot group. The group has a center-to-center spread of 18mm.

    That is 0.6 MOA, so I must be realistic and recognize that I am not going to do much better with this setup. The 4 shots after the first at 12 o'clock are within 11 mm, but there seems to be a slight drift downwards. Maybe cleaning between shots would help.

    Further improvement (if that is possible) will require a bench-rest type setup, and that will take some time to organize. In the meantime, if anybody has a trainer that can shoot a tighter group than this No. 8, let's see it!

    Patrick
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 10-25-2010 at 01:26 PM.

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  17. #20
    Really Senior Member gunner's Avatar
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    That is great shooting Patrick!

    Regards

    Gunner
    Regards Ulrich

    Nothing is impossible until you've tried it !

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