Enfield Envoy

[Peter Laidler]

Looks like I'll have to show you the V-Misc Instruction paperwork then XL39............ But it now begs the next question, are B-ham doing crossed flag proof now or am I misreading something?

[XL39E1]

Sorry, crossed swords, its been a long day! there should be three or four digits surrounding them!

[Thunderbox]

IIRC both Envoys have two sets of proof marks:

they both have the "19T" and crossed pennants of the military/Enfield proof (and i think all Envoys were built in 19T days); and they both have later Birmingham proof - the ordinary Envoy just has "BNP", the Palma has the civilian "BNP 20T"

[XL39E1]

The Date mark on the Palma Looks very much like, Z 3 B going anti clockwise! The Z is 1974, the 3 is the Inspector and the B is Birmingham.

[Peter Laidler]

Problem solved and hopefully, integrity intact all round-------- The UK Military 19T proof can either be 19T OR 20T. Both are the 'same' but done to different methods. Indeed, I am holding in my hands some UK Miltary 19 and 20T bolt heads. BUT, clearly, if the 20T mark is together with and part of a commercial/civilian proof mark, then it clearly is a commercial proof and not military. One other bit mentioned in the instruction. That it makes no difference if the marking (presumably the 19 or 20T) is engraved DOWN the bolt handle or ACROSS the bolt handle.

Apologies if I snapped at anyone and thanks to XL39 for allowing me to examine some of his examples against our paperwork instructions!

However, this raises another issue........... Surely, if the UK Military proof is 20T and so is the civilian/commercial proof, then why does an ex Military 19 or 20T proof L39 or L42 need re-proofing. It reminds me of the comparison of a submarine captain taking his sub down to its proof depth again - just to see if it's still OK. Or a brake test on your car not being acceptable because the same test and criteria is done using another manufacturers brake testing machine.......... Certainly a point on which I'd argue my corner in a court

[Cold_Zero]

XL39E1 can the year code be worked back to L = 61, L 2 C?

Attachment 30272

The Date mark on the Palma Looks very much like, Z 3 B going anti clockwise! The Z is 1974, the 3 is the Inspector and the B is Birmingham.

[XL39E1]

You will need to go foward which works out to be 1985. I use this website, http://www.hallowellco.com/proof_date_codes.htm

[user1]

Here a original sales brochure for anyone interested

[FlightRN]

Good Day All,
I took time out in the New Year to accomplish a deep clean and photo document my early Envoy including the modifications made to the forestock (draws, bedding, etc) and receiver modifications. The wood was drier than I wanted so oiling was needed. I've found Howards Feed-N-Wax to penetrate well. My Palma Envoy had the >S< sold out of service marking on the buttstock socket. On this rifle, it was stamped on the barrel markings under the handguard.
Best Regards,
Michael

[tr63]

Very nice rifle , thanks for posting the pictures . No longer in Jersey ?