IR-IP Stock on Ebay

[painter777]

Sorry if this is a Re-Post
But just noticed this one tonight.
A IR-IP stock that sold for $473.50 which included shipping.
Read the description and see how many tip offs there were if this was a real one.
Well known seller of questionable products, but not sure if he's to blame.
I'm starting to believe many buyers out there just don't care and are looking for something they think will pass down the road as being the real deal.
Heads up to those that don't think this way.

CH-P777

M1 Carbine - Stock & Handguard - Irwin Pedersen ( IP ) | eBay

---------- Post added at 12:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 AM ----------

I probably shouldn't have even posted this.
I see now who the buyer was.
Well known for buying repro from guys like over there in Riverbank.

CH-P777

Information

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[ChipS]

I'm starting to believe many buyers out there just don't care and are looking for something they think will pass down the road as being the real deal.

Bingo!!!!

[Bill Hollinger]

Wow, that description! You be the judge! Real or reproduction stamp. He pretty much gives it up right there. Dang, maybe honesty is the best policy. Worked for him and not a danged thing the buyer can ever say about it being fake.

[sakorick]

Then he says "This stock, reproduction or not, could be a finishing touch to your Pedersen Carbine." It sold for a tremendous repro price. Regards, Rick.

[DaveHH]

But it sure looks like it is past the tipping point. Every carbine will be suspect soon, very soon. Heck, they are now. That is a lot of money for an admitted fake; how do these people sleep?

[painter777]

Dave,
I fully understand and appreciate your comments but...
We can't give up, though it would be the easiest route.
My interest started with my Fathers M1 carbine smuggled home from San Francisco with the help of a Aussie Engineer after the wars end. Have had this gun for years among others and knew nothing about it other than it was a M1 carbine in .30 cal. from WWII. After him getting sick with Alzeimer's, I dug it out one day and started researching it.

We are the 'Current Caretakers' of these historic pieces.
While still learning ourselves we have to continue sharing and educating those who want to be honest and have a chance at the Honor of caring for these.
Parts swapping just to deceive for monetary gain will continue no differently than used cars, humped coins and anything else associated with greed and fraud.
As far as being suspect............ No difference than the local banker or store cashier looking over the $100 bill you hand them. Is it real??
As far as sleeping, that seller slept very well as did the buyer as both knew exactly what was sold and purchased.
Now the problem will arise down the road when the buyer or a descendant (sp?) sells the humped stock or IP carbine.
When being re-sold, I'm sure the current buyer will sleep well knowing he's pulled it off. The family member who may know nothing about it will be the one called out and get the tarnished reputation.

To me this is all the more reason to continue calling out the fakes. It's a straight out sucker punch to the face of those who made them and those who served this country and others with these artifacts.
Putting up with the fakers and by not calling them out is like being spit on by those who don't appreciate what we are trying to do and the investments we have made.


I've noticed that this same seller of the IP stock has been buying heavily on ebay. Many, like repro Type III push safeties are being stated as repro, but being bought just the same. Other finds like barrels, bolts, slides etc being grabbed up. If I could afford to do nothing more than just watch the auction history I could pretty well tell you what new 'Original' carbine would soon be listed on GB.
We were lucky enough just a couple months back to help a member here get a full refund from this seller on a humped SG or S'G'. A lofty $$ purchase at that but, hopefully we can help more.
Didn't mean to start ranting but quite a bit to throw out there.

JMO,
Charlie-painter777

[ChipS]

how do these people sleep?

Well, maybe it's come to Jesus time. I am and always have been a parts swapper to some degree. I have never violated a mostly 'correct' carbine, maybe because I've never owned one. And I've never put parts on mixmasters to try to fool anyone (except perhaps myself). But, these past couple of years I think more and more that DaveHH is right. And I don't sleep as well as I used to. I see a particular 'dealer' putting together carbines for auction that look real good on paper but that we all know are fabricated of real and repro parts, which is not mentioned in the auctions. And I see a guy(s) auctioning off a whole string of original parts from a single manufacturer and with identical patina that I know came off of one cannibalized carbine that was pretty close to being as it came off the assembly line. And I think what a damn waste and I am at least partially responsible.

There should be legal penalties for the fraud purpetrated in our field of interest, as well all others where a dirty buck can be made off of blissful ingnorance with very little effort. But right now there isn't any penalty and in our blameless society I doubt that there ever will be (it's all George Bush's fault). So I'm thinking I will back out now and enjoy the carbines I have, unless and until a 'real' carbine (that I can afford) happens my way. I don't harbor any ill-will against young parts-swappers, or honest older fans that might not see it the way I do now. I got started late in carbines and it's taken me about ten years to finally see the light, so I shouldn't be too judgemental about others. I really don't know for sure what's right or what's wrong re part swapping but I've seen some things in the last few years that make me think that I don't want to be a part of it any more.

It has always been my intention in the end to break-up my put-togethers and sell the parts (which now poses another philosophical dilema), or sell them intact with the admission they are not original assemblies, and leave it to the buyers ethics. I have no one to leave them to and I wouldn't mind some suggestions on the best way to pass them on with minimal damage to our field of interest (no I will not mail them to anybody just to get the monkey off my back).

Sorry so long. Hopefully things will work out and carbine preservation and history won't be completely ruined. JMHO. ChipS

[Tired Retired]

Wait a minute guys, I think you are jumping to conclusions. I have looked at that stock. I disagree that it is a 100% fake - I am certain that the recoil plate screw is real.













Seriously, I feel like I am losing interest in buying carbines any more - at least "collectable" ones. I think I am going to stick with mixmaster shooters from this point forward, forget the rare parts/versions. It it's "correct", I don't want it (unless one of you guys want to put me in your will).

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

Chips,

The carbines you paid for and own are yours to do as you want. Selling them "whole" verses selling them as "parts" is a tough question. I read where people say they would only spend $600-$700 for an average carbine. Average means what? Very worn original? Mix master rebuild? Import rebuild? Some guy changing parts (still GI parts) to match a maker on the receiver?
First off different areas will get different prices. I read where mixmasters are now going for $800 in a lot of places. It seems you would make a better return on investment selling them as parts like you intended. Guys may say that is not right, but most are looking for bargains and not willing to pay the cost of the parts to buy it assembled. It's easy for someone to say that when they wouldn't be the person losing the money.

I have the same dilemma, no children, and a 38 year collection. So I just traded twelve nice carbines to my cousin for eighteen mixmaster/rebuilds/parts guns, whatever you want to call them. He has a son to leave the nice ones. I bought most of them back in the 80's, so even the return on the ones I got from him will be more then I paid for the ones I gave him. So what to do? Sell them as complete guns for $800-$900 each. Or spend the time selling the parts for $100 or so more?

I feel if you honestly tell the buyer what you are offering, it is up to that person to decide if it is fair or not.

Sooner or later I won't want to keep as many as I have. I'm with you, as long as it's not a known original, I don't know which way to go either.

Jim

[firstflabn]

After your house gets broken into, you feel vulnerable - and that doesn't go away quickly. That's the source for much of the justified outrage over the fakers. (But you can add in vitriol for those benefiting from fraud). But the fakers couldn't profit if there was no market. What do you want, licensing of sellers; an exam for becoming a certified collector? Getting overexcited over a big score, an opportunity for making a quick profit by buying from an uninformed seller, a buyer who thinks he knows enough to hit the bigtime buying and selling carbines without ever having heard of the Carbine Club newsletter. Those are all elements of collecting every bit as much as someone worshiping a true (or possible) bringback. As interest has grown and with the advent of the internet, the world of carbine collecting has changed. It also changed in the early 60s when the NRA batch was released, and at every major release since. We are lucky to not have other nations' gun laws or they all would have gone through the crusher or the torch by now.

Everybody thinks the Golden Age of carbine collecting ended the day after they got interested. The purity it possessed disappeared the next day as it became polluted by anyone with a different interest. The 'Good Old Days' syndrome at work. Twenty years ago here in north Florida during the next phase of Yankees invading, front tags with 'Native' printed over an outline of the state appeared. These were soon countered by tags replacing 'Native' with 'Recent Native.' (That's pretty good even though I fit into the first category). Nobody 'owns' the hobby. Expressing outrage when one is modified is just silly. Interchangeable parts and easy maintenance were essential parts of the original design and made swapping inevitable.

There are only three types of carbines: documented bringbacks, mixmasters, and unknowns. The latter includes all wishful thinking. Buy accordingly.