longbranch sniper build with modern scope. the purists are screaming..........

[mrbungle]

ok....

this was the first enfield i ever bought, payed 250 at a pawn shop. little did i know at the time it would launch my love of enfields.

it is a no 4 mk I 1943 longbranch.

this is what we started with...crap scope, crap mount and paint all over with crap stock..
unbelievably with that scope and mount , it is a good shooter.



first thing to do was to restore it to it's rightful look.
so i ordered some parts for brian at BDL and he hooked me up with all the right parts to bring this bad boy back to life. he alos helped me find part for my no 4 mk2 build but that is another thread.




i plan to put a scope mount on it with a vortex 1-4x24 Viper PST 30mm Rifle Scope
it has the no 32 look.
Vortex 1 4x24 Viper PST 30mm Rifle Scope PST14STM TMCQ Mrad | eBay

here is the mount i ordered. for a no drill mount , this is the best one i found even has rough 300 yard battle sights.
Smithless Scope Mount 2nd GEN NO 4 MK 1 303 British LEE Enfield GUN Scope Mount | eBay

with loctite this mount is going no where with how it mounts to the no 4 receiver.


then i ordered a repo T sniper cheek rest for the butt stock to give it the T look. i plan to glass bed the receiver.

pics of restored rifle coming soon.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Peter Laidler]

I'm sure the purists are screaming a bit, but the realists are just rolling their eyes skywards and grimmacing Mr Bungle. Floating barrel on a .303" rifle definately ain't not going to give you a sniper rifle or anything even closely associated with accuracy. And a telescope don't make an inaccurate rifle accurate. Make it an accurate rifle first

It's a bit like having a mickey mouse watch....... You don't have to have a £3000 Omega to tell the time, but if you DO want to tell the time, don't get a mickey mouse either! Like they say....., good to look at but not much good if you need to tell the time!

Just my 2c's worth but I'm sure that there will be others

[mrbungle]

not to disagree but this rifle was doing 3 inch groupings at 400 yards with that crap scope and stock. 303's are not the most accurate rifles in the world. this i know. but i want a modern scope on this rifle. mil/mil. the 303 has a drop rate just like every round. just a matter of refining loads and collecting the data. there should be no reason why this rifle should not do 800 yards. i have a 308 remmy with after market stock, glass bedding , trigger and mag well that shoots like a dream after data was collected and the round load was refined.

like most of my weapons. it is a toy to see how far i can shoot it and hit a target. i am not a sniper nor do i pretend to be. but i love when old rifles out shoot the guy with the 3000 dollar SCAR at the range......

[303Guy]

Peter, why do you say a free float 303 won't shoot accurately? Are these old girls capable of pin point accuracy?

I thought 1¼ inch 10 shot groups with my free floated, No4 barreled LMLE was pretty good given that I did nothing to accurise the ammo. I cannot swear on the the accuracy of my free floated, rust textured two-groove No4 but on brief tests in the field it would shoot almost touching groups out to approximately 200 yds (as I say, I can't swear on it - haven't done the proper 10 shot groups with it. I didn't feel the need as it never missed anything. If I aimed carefully at a spot I hit it). My free floated 25-303 SMLE shoots sub-MOA at 183 m. I built a SMLE for a buddy (gunsmith fitted a new barrel and scope base) and that too, while only a 2 MOA rifle did that with any ammo it was fed (there must have been some POI shift but not enough to notice in the field. I never did group it at longer ranges so maybe the groups dampened down. We were only shooting rocks on a hill at distances over 150 m and hitting the centres. So, My experiences as limited as they are have been that Lee Enfield's don't need full bedding and are in fact quite accurate hunting rifles.

mrbungle is saying he got 3 inch groups at 400 yds, that's in keeping with what I was getting. Not 1000 yds tennis ball accuracy but good hunting accuracy.

[mrbungle]

back to the build.

here she is back to what she is suppose to look like. got all the paint off and cleaned up.

i still have some fitting to do on the cheek piece before it is put into place.


here is how the site bolts on


cool thing is i can take the bolt out with the site on the rifle. unlike my T no 4


here is the peep sight. now i don;t know if it is a peep site , but i will find out when i start shooting the rifle again. looks like one to me.....but what do i know.


now, i just need some ultra low rings and the scope. but i still need to bed the action.

[JerryEAL]

That mount was made 15 minutes from me, I met the guys and they are very good guys to deal with.It is the best alternative as it still is set for a 300 yard battle site. The last bracket just went for over $600. yikes. I have pictures with a weaver K3 if you want to see it mounted...

[mrbungle]

Awesome. from comparing it to my other enfield sites . I thought it looked like a 300 yard sight. Tell those guys i am as happy as can be with their sight. Yes please post a pic.

[Peter Laidler]

Good question 303guy and the idea of standard format free floating .303 barrels and accuracy have been aired on this site in some depth previously. If I just say that all a thin barrel is, is a tube or a cylindrical tuning fork in relation to its harmonic properties. And the bullet doesn't give a toss about what has happened or is happening where it's already passed. The only thing that can affect it up the bore is what is happening ahead of it. And guess what's happening up ahead of the bore......... Yep, vibration and plenty of it! The best thing to cure this vibration is to damp it down in a controlled manner. Are things fitting into place now............ ? Are you thinking of a muzzle bearing.......?

I hear all about the accuracy of free floating barrels - sometimes listening/reading with eyes as wide as soup plates, mouth agog! But I step back and just ask myself, as others might, this pertinent question......

If accuracy like this could be obtained with all these super-duper san-fandanglio methods of fitting up fore-ends which wera all exhaustively tried, trialled and tested and the results detailed and published, then WHY was the fitting of the fore-end on the No4 rifle NEVER relaxed (actually, it was, once for a short period during the war to allow for the dearth of good timber). And another aside question too......... Why was the fitting of the accurate No4T forened NEVER, ever relaxed.

Just a few points to ponder

PS. Please don't take every word of this as scientifically correct as it's not but I've skimped over things to make it short and sharp but to the point.

Someone ought to ask me about that side mounted telescopic sight mount next. Don't forget to mention clock and anti clockwise moments/torque too..........

[mrbungle]

peter .we love you. you have forgotten and have contributed more about these rifles than i will ever know.

not be sarcastic. it is true. i value your opinion on these rifles. one of the reasons i want the wood and hardware back was the barrel tension at the fore end. now do you think bedding the action will help?

i read a an article were a guy did that on a NO 4 t replica and he said it helps a lot with accuracy.

[Ridolpho]

Mr B: Personally I only undertake repairs or restorations to original military standards as guided by Capt. Laidler and other experts on the Forum. These experts have repeatedly stated that no accurizing techniques have been found by the military to enhance accuracy beyond the standard fitment. Pure target shooters have a different perspective and have tried many things. You might want to buy the book on accurizing by Forum member RJW who concisely summarizes the options (including "bedding"). He also points out that MOA precision is rarely achieved even with heavily modified rifles (unless I misunderstood) while you've already exceeded that goal with your free floating sporter................

Ridolpho