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Thread: A little story about the m1 carbine

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  1. #1
    Senior Member topaz's Avatar
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    Last edited by topaz; 09-05-2014 at 09:30 AM.

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    Really Senior Member firstflabn's Avatar
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    Like the author, I believe the carbine was a bit underappreciated and its role misunderstood. However, he does a poor job of making the case.

    the M-1 carbine never was supposed to replace the Garandicon as a battle rifleit was supposed to arm cooks and clerks

    According to army WWII T/O&Es, Cooks and Cook's Helpers in rifle and HW companies were authorized Garands, as was the Company Clerk. You about have to find a unit type with a high percentage of carbines to find these MOS with carbines.

    But by 1943, up to 40 percent of some infantry divisions were carrying the carbine as their primary weapon

    That's correct, but a bit misleading as well over a third of carbines authorized in army infantry divisions were in organic artillery battalions. Is he suggesting that the artilleryman's primary weapon was the carbine?

    Focused on the USMC throughout the article, the author shows little indication of having done his homework. The E-100 marine division of 1943 was authorized just over 55% carbines.

    During the same year, the Marines on Okinawa used a version of the M-1 fitted with the first U.S. night-vision gearthe so-called Sniperscope, visible in the banner photo at top

    The 'same year' referred to is 1944. That's obviously incorrect.

    The one pictured with the lamp above the barrel was a postwar development and, thus, not available for use on Okinawa. Rather, the first version mounted the lamp underneath. It was changed based on field experience the lower lamp position allowed brush and earth to block the lamp. It's impossible to tell from the photo whether it is a T3 carbine as would be appropriate for Okinawa.

    The army had more troops on Okinawa than the marines and suffered slightly higher casualties, but he leaves them out. The little bit of evidence available suggests 440 Sniperscopes were issued to the army and 295 to the marines for the Okinawa campaign. (2MARDIV likely got some of the 295 Sniperscopes, but barely got ashore).

    During World War II and the Korean War, it was completely possible for the Army to issue a company clerk an Underwood typewriter and an Underwood M-1 carbine

    Possible, but not likely according to T/O&Es as described above - at least in the overwhelming majority of combat and combat support unit types. (The great majority of field artillery battalions had no shoulder arms other than carbines, so, obviously, their cooks and clerks would have had them. I seriously doubt the author knew that.)

    One of the reasons the Marines selected it as the weapon of choice for the Sniperscope was the weapons modest weight and bulk

    The Marines didn't select anything. They merely adopted what the Army's Ordnance Department developed. The Sniperscope was a system, not an add-on for various small arms (except experimentally).

    The author is almost finished with his first draft. Having created the outline, it's time for him to begin fact checking.

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    Really Senior Member imarangemaster's Avatar
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    I also agree that the M1icon Carbine is under appreciated. I have said many times before that the Carbines bad reputation comes from trying to use it as a battle rifle at 300+ yards, or untrained full auto fire, where they majority of the rounds went over the top. I have fired an M2, and it takes mastery to keep the rounds on target, even with short burst, let alone Korean War era mag dumps. I had enough confidence to carry one as a LEO trunk weapon for much of my career, and even killed a 200 pound blacktail deer with a single 100 yard heart lung-shot with a 110 JSP Remington round.

    In the PTO, My dad carried an M1 Carbine on Iwo Jima. He was signals NCOIC with headquarters, but on Iwo, that was not a rear echelon - as there was no rear! He was there for the big Banzai charge. His brothers were Marine tankers, and had carbines. When their tanks got knocked out, they became Marine infantry with their Carbines. They also loved their carbines. The fighting in the Pacific was largely close up and personal, something the Carbine was actually very good at. I knew a a D-Day Normandy vet. He was an NCO. He carried a Garand when they were in the countryside, but changed weapons with his RTO for a Carbine when they went into the towns. He said the carbine never let him down clearing houses. Look at Audie Murphy in Europe, and Ola Mize in Korea. I had a friend that was an Advisor in the early years of Vietnam. He carried an M2 carbine and loved it for Jungle fighting.

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imarangemaster View Post
    Ola Mize in Korea
    That was quite a story. Lots of graveside humor there. I agree that if all the guys that have been killed with a carbine sat up at once...it'd look like rapture had come.
    Regards, Jim

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    Harlan (Deceased)'s Avatar
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    My dad was a tank Sgt and he said he was issued an M1icon Carbine when he got over there and he LOVED the carbine over carrying a Garand. (He wasn't very big) He used to have paperwork saying he was certified on M1, M1 Carbine, 1911-A1 and I thought it was was so cool but it disappeared to time.


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