+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 37

Thread: Who is doing all the Enfield target shooting??

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #11
    Really Senior Member Robert303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Last On
    10-18-2018 @ 11:36 PM
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    313
    Local Date
    08-21-2019
    Local Time
    05:05 AM
    The other factors are age and eyesight. Most shooters in the UKicon are 50+ their eyesight is going and so sticking a PH 5a on an SMLE for instance is really the only way they can keep shooting a SMLE. In some cases this applies to their No4s.
    Also a number of shoots, such as the Scottish Classic Rifle Championships, are running seperate comps for target rifles of that period so it's quite easy to get into 2 comps insted of one by removing the sight.


  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire We specialise in military utensils and artefacts such as helmets, daggers, medals and badges, etc.  The on-line store is intended for personal browsing and searching of collecting objects. All items are provided historical value only and can be used for home collection or other purposes except of fascism, Nazism or other extremism manifestation or its propaganda. LIMITED TIME OFFER FROM THE AMERICAN GUNSMITHING INSTITUTE: Get Immediate Online Access To AGI's NEW Armorer's Course for Glock Pistols, Covering Every Generation of Glocks, Including the Latest Model 42/43 and Double Stack Pistols for ONLY $7.00! Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Chuck in Denver ... Buy-Sell-Trade .. Guns, Cars Motorcycles We pride ourselves on being the new lowest price listing service, and the simplest to use. If you need to buy or sell collectible firearms or any firearm in your legal possession, then this is the place for you. If you’re a big collector clearing house, or other seller that could benefit from a Premium seller account, then we can also support you here at Gunonline.com. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #12
    Senior Member cprher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Last On
    12-23-2018 @ 09:23 PM
    Location
    Palmyra, VA, USA
    Posts
    109
    Local Date
    08-20-2019
    Local Time
    11:05 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Laidlericon View Post
    So any of the commercially available sights are 'appropriate' in effect as they were supplied from Ordnance sightless. As were the L96's supplied as target rifles - as opposed to sniping rifles
    Peter, I heard this for several years now but when I finally got my L39A1 it was important to me for the gun to mount a "proper" sight. I defined that as an AJP 4/47 Twin Zero graduated for 7.62 NATO. I was lucky enough to find one in almost new condition. Similarly, when I got the Model 1917 I decided to outfit it with a PH5B, in my opinion, the best target sight made for that rifle. Mine was new in box and apparently had never been mounted. I'm especially impressed that neither the 4/47 or the 5B require any permanent modification to either rifle to fit.
    Keith

  4. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to cprher For This Useful Post:


  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #13
    Really Senior Member Colonel Enfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Last On
    07-21-2019 @ 01:38 AM
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    277
    Local Date
    08-21-2019
    Local Time
    02:05 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick303 View Post
    I would say competitive shooting with Lee-Enfields is a real flop in the US of A, about as popular as Rosie O'Donnell pin-ups. . At my local rifle club we tried to get matches running at 100 yards, made up a bunch of the tin hat targets, our local computer wizard made up some very neat score books, we advertised the matches and.....nothing.

    Tried it again the next year and ........nothing.
    I've heard competitive target shooting as an organised sport generally isn't hugely popular in the US the way it is in places like Australiaicon and the UKicon (where it's one of the few legal reasons to own a gun).

    Obviously there's still plenty of people who do it, but I've had more than one of my American friends express surprise at the idea anyone would find firing an "old army rifle at things" to be a serious competition, especially when there's lots of new rifles about for practically nothing which are much more accurate and easy to get parts for.

    Oddly, these same people see nothing odd about folks dressing up as cowboys and firing guns from Western movies at things.

  7. Thank You to Colonel Enfield For This Useful Post:


  8. #14
    Senior Member l1a1 breakdown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last On
    08-04-2019 @ 06:31 PM
    Location
    Allentown PA
    Posts
    194
    Local Date
    08-21-2019
    Local Time
    12:05 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick303 View Post
    with Enfields we cannot get anyone (except me I will show up).
    I will show too Frederick! Am now setting up my 2016 calendar...

  9. #15
    Advisory Panel
    Peter Laidler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 02:27 PM
    Location
    Abingdon, Oxfordshire. The home of MG Cars
    Posts
    16,097
    Local Date
    08-21-2019
    Local Time
    05:05 AM
    I'm not a big fan of target shooting but did occasionally partake by borrowing the occasional L39 or sometimes the accurate L81's that were housed in the Armoury. The old RQMS that used to book the zeroing range and come down with me for a shoot told me that the real shooters zeroed the rifle at the 0-0 fixed/sliding scale mark on the range scale and ignored the rest. They just went by the clicks on the scale. Knowing that. say, 10 clicks was 200 yards and 12 clicks was 200 metres and so on up to 900 yards or metres. That meant they could use any of the sights (depending on the clicks per revolution of course. So any sight that was on the rifle was acceptable.

    I also found it beneficial because by doing it this way, it was deemed to be an official sport so ammunition and mileage was on the house so to speak!

  10. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to Peter Laidler For This Useful Post:


  11. #16
    Really Senior Member Frederick303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 11:35 PM
    Location
    Pipersville PA US
    Posts
    708
    Local Date
    08-21-2019
    Local Time
    12:05 AM
    Growing up in the US of A organized target shooting ( national match shooting) was a pretty decent sport, with something like 34,000 rated (it they had a classification) shooters at its peak, sometime in the mid 1980s. For every rated shooter there was likely something like 5 or 6 shooters that fired at local matches but never shot enough registered matches to get a classification. In those days for each DCM club you belonged to (organized by the government) you got 150 rounds of free ammunition per year, which depending on the club usually meant if you were a newer shooter you got around 300~600 rounds per year (older shooters would fire at least once per year but not draw ammunition). Once you fired 150 rounds in competition you got the ability to buy 1 M1 rifle per lifetime from the government for 118 dollars delivered (94 dollars plus shipping and handling fee). The DCM club I went to used to have 18 to 27 shooters per match, mostly shot with M1, M1903 and M14icon type rifles with a small smattering of .300 and 7.62 NRA match rifles.

    If you went to the nationals as part of a club team your fees to shoot (which included ammunition) were less then the freebies you got (such as 5,000 rounds of ammunition for each team that fired in the NTI and NTT). Sometime you got freebies, such as one year our team go a case of 5,000 Lapua .309 D46 170 gr bullets that were surplus to government needs, just for showing up to shoot as a team (in addition to the team ammo allotment). Food and housing were Spartan, but cheap (like 2 bucks a night).

    Of course back then Bianchi cup was the only action shooting event, so if you liked competitive shooting NMC was the main game, the only one related to military shooting. The traditional shooting sports such as pistol bullseye and National Match (NM) shooting have declined, simply stated they have slowly gone from an activity devoted to practical marksmanship skill to shooting activity devoted to high scores under ISSU conditions with all sorts of artificial aids (of course this trend dates from around 1975). As that happened it lost popularity and continues to decline. Then IDPS, IPDA, IPSIC, 3-gun and a whole host of other adrenaline based shooting sports came up along with F class in the 1990s for the precision minded folks, which is where most of the new shooters have gone (one or the other).


    Also government support pretty much ended, the DCM became the CMPicon in 1996, government support of matches ended and with it issue ammunition. The CMP became devoted to making money and ended up being a wholly owned subsidiary of the M1 Garand collectors association. With it the focus went from encouraging shooting proficiency to separating well healed collectors from their money. I ran a CMP club for a number of years and the support was less than zero, though most older shooters were blinded by the stuff they could buy and so failed to see the adverse effect of the CMP policies. The matches we used to run that had 18 to 27 shooters now have 4 to 12 shooters coming out, and that in a club that in the 1980/90s was ~1400 members and is now ~2,200.


    The ranges now are full of folks shooting AR15 and other black rifles, sitting on benches with optics shooting at distances of 50 to 100 yards. "Epically gay", to use the modern idiom.

    In fairness a lot has to do with young men today, they are all playing "medal of honor-seal-sniper modern warfare" computer games, which are all adrenaline based. Such activities do not tend towards the more precision skill based shooting activities, they are drawn to 3 gun and other such activities. The three gun matches do seem to do well, though the skill of discharging 5 rounds with a rifle into a man sized target at 25 yards in minimum time is all together different from trying to hit a 12 inch bull at 600 yards slow fire. A completely different mindset.

  12. The Following 6 Members Say Thank You to Frederick303 For This Useful Post:


  13. #17
    Really Senior Member Mk VII's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 05:37 PM
    Location
    England
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,067
    Local Date
    08-21-2019
    Local Time
    05:05 AM
    Lack of access to modern (and not-so-modern) firearms here has brought a resurgence of interest in .303s and similar era arms, and shooting them in competition at a fairly high standard is fairly popular. Clubs have formed for doing so. Old-style S.R.(b) shooting evolved into T.R. once the .303 era ended and gradually this has become a rich man's sport - a converted Mauser or No.4 is no longer good enough at national event level - using rich man's ammunition, despite efforts to subsidise it somewhat for the young.
    Old-style .22 indoor leagues are slowly dying as the generation that was content to do that dies off or retires and indoor ranges get increasingly closed down. The only young people who are exposed to shooting are the Public schools and the cadet corps, and some will take it up after school, perhaps many years after school, but not many.

  14. #18
    Really Senior Member Colonel Enfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Last On
    07-21-2019 @ 01:38 AM
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    277
    Local Date
    08-21-2019
    Local Time
    02:05 PM
    The World War I Centenary is certainly helping people rediscover the old rifles too, though it has suddenly pushed the prices up in this part of the world as people with greater wallet sizes than understanding of old rifles decide they want "one of those Anzac guns".

    For what it's worth, the service rifle folks where I shoot have made a conscious decision that, at least at club level, people are welcome to use sporterised military rifles in the Service Rifle competition matches; the price of "proper" service rifles keep going up and the first exposure a lot of younger shooters have is getting a cheap sporterised .303 from somewhere (perhaps an older, licenced family member).

    We figured that having them show up at the range and having people sniffing dismissively at those rifles and saying "that's not original, it can get in the sea" wasn't going to help anyone - or the shooting sports generally.

    There's a few target SMLE and No 4 rifles which show up as well and for new or older shooters they're welcome to join in with the regular competition. Since we all accept the rifles are far more accurate than most of us, the emphasis is on enjoying the competition and its spirit for the most part.

    Obviously if you want to shoot competitively at state or national level then you're going to need proper gear, but service shooters are well-known for being a friendly and generous lot and people are often more than happy to share guns if someone's missing an appropriate one for a match.
    Last edited by Colonel Enfield; 12-29-2015 at 05:37 PM.

  15. #19
    Really Senior Member Frederick303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 11:35 PM
    Location
    Pipersville PA US
    Posts
    708
    Local Date
    08-21-2019
    Local Time
    12:05 AM
    My real interest in Enfield shooting dates to going to the Canadianicon Fullbore Nationals in 1996 and 1997, New Zealand in 2000 and NSW in Australiaicon in 2002. Between the various trips I spent many happy hors on the rages with old Enfields and it set the hook. Went from a collection of 6 Enfields (which I thought very complete with a 2 - No1 , 2- No4, 1 No 5 and a P14) to a number I do not mention... which is pretty complete. unfortunately it is next to impossible to get folks to shoot a straight Enfield match and they are simply not competitive in any current US competition venue.

    There is something to be said for being directed into a limited field of competition. It does seem to keep some semblance of direction and concentration of effort, which in the free range environment of the modern shooting scene is just simply lacking. Simply stated in a field as obscure as black power antique shooting, there are the following areas:

    Traditional Kentucky rifle shooting (AKA friendship Indiana)
    NSSA (shooting with muskets, aka civil war style)
    Long range black powder (muzzle loader and cartridge)
    Silhouette black powder (same course as modern rifles)
    "Chunk" shooting (blackpowder bench-rest with traditional heavy guns)
    Cowboy shooting (for muzzle loader revolvers)
    Black powder trap (yes there are guys that do that.)
    Modern In-line black powder bench matches.

    With all these competition areas, it is very hard for any one activity to get the numbers of folks that used to be directed into one or two activities.

  16. Thank You to Frederick303 For This Useful Post:


  17. #20
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last On
    08-17-2019 @ 12:22 PM
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,693
    Local Date
    08-21-2019
    Local Time
    06:05 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick303 View Post
    black power antique shooting,
    ??? Is that a variation on silhouette shooting Frederick? Where do you find the black power antiques? And should you be shooting at antiques anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick303 View Post
    unfortunately it is next to impossible to get folks to shoot a straight Enfield match
    You're in the wrong country for that. Over here, the BDMP holds a yearly "Enfield-Mauser Trophy" match. 3 classes: Enfield, Swedishicon Mauser, Other Mausers.

    ---------- Post added at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick303 View Post
    With all these competition areas, it is very hard for any one activity to get the numbers of folks that used to be directed into one or two activities.
    Very true. In some competition areas I find myself coming first and last, and wondering if I should bother next year. However, when next year comes I do it again, hoping that someone else will turn up, as for a couple of my antiques it is the only chance to see how they perform under competition conditions.


+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. sighting target and shooting jack
    By mac1911 in forum M1 Garand/M14/M1A Rifles
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-27-2014, 06:42 PM
  2. British target shooting history question regarding matches/match rifles
    By breakeyp in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12-31-2013, 05:28 AM
  3. Stocking a no4 mk2 for target shooting 300, 500 and 600m
    By ssj in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-03-2013, 07:22 PM
  4. Target shooting with my MkIII
    By pathfinder2 in forum The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-16-2012, 09:07 PM
  5. Just when was the 'golden era'of Enfield target shooting?
    By RJW NZ in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08-29-2011, 09:39 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts