+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Bullet Size for Trapdoor

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Member mr.tickle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 02:09 PM
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    59
    Local Date
    09-26-2020
    Local Time
    04:11 PM

    Bullet Size for Trapdoor

    I recently slugged the bore on my 1873 Trapdoor, it came out to .458. What size bullet do I use? .456, .458, .460? I was planning on shooting blackpowder cartridges.

    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire Family owned and operated since 1962, Simpson LTD is the largest collector firearms store in the Midwest. Our globally sourced inventory represents many eras, with an emphasis on World War II and our favorite firearm, the Luger, of which we typically have 2,500 in stock.  Inventory changes daily with 10,000 firearms ready to ship; along with accessories, militaria, and hundreds of book titles. We also offer appraisals, consignment services ranging from single items to full collections, and we are one of the most reliable and competitively priced import and export services available.  We do not offer parts or gunsmithing, but we have a little bit of everything else. Visit our website for more information and our new technical video series Speaking Luger, and like Simpson Ltd on Facebook for updates, previews, and more. LIMITED TIME OFFER FROM THE AMERICAN GUNSMITHING INSTITUTE: Get Immediate Online Access To AGI's NEW Armorer's Course for Glock Pistols, Covering Every Generation of Glocks, Including the Latest Model 42/43 and Double Stack Pistols for ONLY $7.00! Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Chuck in Denver ... Buy-Sell-Trade .. Guns, Cars Motorcycles Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses. Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire
     

  3. #2
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 10:58 AM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    24,105
    Local Date
    09-26-2020
    Local Time
    02:11 PM
    Can you just bump your mold? That should give it a couple more. Have you thought about paper patch?
    Regards, Jim

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Really Senior Member mr.e moose's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 01:48 PM
    Location
    alberta canada
    Posts
    314
    Local Date
    09-26-2020
    Local Time
    03:11 PM
    You should be good with a .458 pure lead bullet it will bump up a bit when fired.

  6. #4
    Member mr.tickle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 02:09 PM
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    59
    Local Date
    09-26-2020
    Local Time
    04:11 PM
    Thread Starter
    I don't have a mold for it, it will also be my first time shooting/reloading black powder. So I am having to learn a lot about this type of reloading from scratch. I also will probably buying the bullets starting out. Is 20-1 ratio soft enough?
    Last edited by mr.tickle; 02-10-2017 at 07:33 PM. Reason: additional question

  7. #5
    Really Senior Member mr.e moose's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 01:48 PM
    Location
    alberta canada
    Posts
    314
    Local Date
    09-26-2020
    Local Time
    03:11 PM
    It should be OK. Where are you located? If in Canadaicon I could suggest a few places or send you some to try out. The big thing with shooting the Holy Black is to leave no air space between the powder and the base of the bullet. If you buy a hollow base bullet fill the HB with a beeswax and Crisco lube and have a .458 card between the bullet and your powder. The Paul Matthews books are great for a beginning BP shooter. With modern cases you wont be able to get 70 grains of black powder in. You can use drop tubes and compression plugs but the best I can get is around 65.

  8. #6
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 10:58 AM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    24,105
    Local Date
    09-26-2020
    Local Time
    02:11 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.e moose View Post
    The big thing with shooting the Holy Black is to leave no air space between the powder and the base of the bullet.
    Excellent advise, an air space with Black can cause you to damage a rifle right now...
    Regards, Jim

  9. #7
    Member mr.tickle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 02:09 PM
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    59
    Local Date
    09-26-2020
    Local Time
    04:11 PM
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.e moose View Post
    It should be OK. Where are you located? If in Canadaicon I could suggest a few places or send you some to try out. The big thing with shooting the Holy Black is to leave no air space between the powder and the base of the bullet. If you buy a hollow base bullet fill the HB with a beeswax and Crisco lube and have a .458 card between the bullet and your powder. The Paul Matthews books are great for a beginning BP shooter. With modern cases you wont be able to get 70 grains of black powder in. You can use drop tubes and compression plugs but the best I can get is around 65.
    I appreciate the offer but unfortunately (perhaps fortunately this time of year), I am in Florida. I was planning on checking out Matthews books. Will flat based bullets be ok?

  10. #8
    Really Senior Member mr.e moose's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 01:48 PM
    Location
    alberta canada
    Posts
    314
    Local Date
    09-26-2020
    Local Time
    03:11 PM
    Nothing wrong with flat base bullets. One of my favorites is a 405 grain.

  11. #9
    Member mr.tickle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 02:09 PM
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    59
    Local Date
    09-26-2020
    Local Time
    04:11 PM
    Thread Starter
    Let me ask another question. The gun closed on both a no-go and field gauge. Yet I was told it should be ok with black powder loads. Is that true? The gunsmith obviously did not want to put him inself into a legal conundrum.

  12. #10
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 10:37 AM
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,827
    Local Date
    09-26-2020
    Local Time
    11:11 PM

    Basic BPCR loading

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.tickle View Post
    I recently slugged the bore on my 1873 Trapdoor, it came out to .458. What size bullet do I use? .456, .458, .460? I was planning on shooting blackpowder cartridges.
    I imagine that by 0.458" you mean the GROOVE diameter and not the BORE diameter.

    The following tips apply ONLY to BPCRs loaded with BLACK POWDER. Sorry to shout, but IMHO to use nitro in an original Trapdoor is irresponsible. Read the reloading manuals - they contain plenty of warnings.

    1) If you use pure lead, then a reasonably weighty bullet (>400 gn) will slug up to fill the rifling, even if it is slightly under bore size, as in minie rifles.
    However, this is not much use to you, as an 0.450"-0.451" bullet will not be held by the case neck.

    2) If you use a bullet that is larger than groove diameter, then it will merely create unnecessarily high pressure as the bullet must be swaged down to fit the rifling profile. So forget 0.460", unless it is necessary to achieve the "hard-push" fit - see 4).

    3) The harder the bullet, the less it will bump up. So whereas a pure lead bullet will bump up successfully, even if slightly undersized - see 1) - a fairly hard lead tin alloy, say 1/15 tin, will need to be groove size.

    4) In my experience, a 1/20 tin-lead alloy will allow the use of either .456 or .458", whichever you have available. Pick the bullet diameter that is a finger+thumb "hard-push" fit in a fired case. No kind of a crimp is required. It is enough that the bullet does not fall out of the case! This will enable you to get away with using cases that are not resized at all! They last and last and last...

    5) Forget headspace gauges on a BPCR that is more than a century old. Made maybe 50 years before CIP and SAAMI standards were defined. BPCRs all used rimmed cases, and there seem to be enough serious shooters around who use, for instance, reformed 10.3x60R cases (with a very thin 1.05mm rim ) as replacements for unobtainable cases with thicker rims (the 45-xx and 50-xx families have 1.64mm). I.e. 0.023" excess headspace. But only for the first firing. After that, the case hase been fire-formed to fit the chamber, regardless of CIP, SAAMI, etc.

    6) If you use the "hard-push" method, then you can also seat the bullets ever so slightly too far out, so that they touch the lands. When the block is closed it will push the case right into the chamber, so that you a) consistently have a bullet just touching the lands b) the base is hard up against the block face. I.e. no "headspace" problem - real or imagined.

    Hope this helps - it works for me.
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 02-12-2017 at 11:53 PM. Reason: Typos

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Will a fired bullet hit the ground at the same time as a dropped bullet?
    By WarPig1976 in forum The Watering Hole OT (Off Topic) Forum
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 07-02-2016, 01:19 AM
  2. Bullet size for 1891 Carcano
    By RBruce in forum Ammunition and Reloading for Old Milsurps
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-12-2012, 11:45 AM
  3. Krag bullet attracts bullet
    By A. F Medic in forum Krag Rifles
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-08-2011, 01:22 AM
  4. MH Lee dies - bullet size
    By dogtag in forum Ammunition and Reloading for Old Milsurps
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-25-2009, 07:53 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts