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Thread: Pair of No.4 Mk1(T) opinions requested

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    Senior Member ralfus's Avatar
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    Pair of No.4 Mk1(T) opinions requested

    Today I looked at a pair of 1945 No4Mk1(T) rifles. They appear to have never been mated with a scope. Have been in the same family possession since the mid 1970's. No importer marks, just Britishicon proofs near the muzzle. Please disregard the obvious commercial magazines as they were added only recently. I took some photos and would like to read opinions of the more knowledgeable members here.

    Thank you in advance

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    Senior Member ralfus's Avatar
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    Senior Member ralfus's Avatar
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    Senior Member ralfus's Avatar
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    Contributing Member CINDERS's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure the small "s" Rt side receiver near bolt head signifies that the open sights have been set up at H&H, can just make out the "S51" on one of the butts, the single staking on the pad screws is a good sign, a nice pair of scopeless "T"s the war may have finished whilst these were in the system so the demand was not as great for them. Nice find now next question are they going to sell them as a pair which would be the way to go I reckon hopefully they have been store & looked after correctly so everything is as it should be though I would suggest a good dunking in RLO/Turp 60/40 mix would be in order as the stocks are probably a bit thirsty.
    You can pick up No.4 mags pretty cheap I have a spare that fits my T and functions flawlessly good for speed shoots, but they may require tweaking a bit if they go that way.

    Thanks for the share others will chime in I am positive.
    Last edited by CINDERS; 02-15-2018 at 12:02 AM.

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    Really Senior Member Seaforth72's Avatar
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    Nice photos, thank you for posting these. Both rifles were made at BSA Shirley in Englandicon (M47C was their late WWII wartime code) in 1945. One is serial number V38764 and the other is X32146 . Both have the "TR" mark indicating that they were more accurate than usual and designated for conversion to telescope equipped rifles. Interestingly the "TR" stamping on V38764 is much higher than usual.

    The two rifles APPEAR to be No.4 Mk I (T. LESS TELESCOPE), i.e. among the circa 3,000 unfinished conversions. The contract ended leaving these rifles unfinished. The key clues appear to be:
    1. No serial number stamped into the top of the wrist of the butt, just below the cocking piece.
    2. No "T" stamp on the left side of the body to signify completion of the conversion process to sniper.

    Questions for ralfus:
    1. Do both rifles have the "S51" stamp on the underside of the butt? If not, which one has it?
    2. Do either or both rifles have a serial number stamped into the upper surface of the butt e.g. 12345 and if so, what number on which rifle?
    3. Do both have an "S" stamp on the right side on the small flat section of the body just below the bolt head? If only one has the "S", which serial number is it please?

    Both rifles should be accurate and are likely little used. One can add a bracket and scope without damaging them to make a nice clone of a No. 4 Mk. I (T) sniper rifle. One could use either a replica or an original orphaned scope set. Naturally one should NOT add any markings as that would be forgery. If you find and use original brackets and scopes, be aware that someone may have the matching rifle(s) someday and in that case I would suggest working out a win-win deal so that the scope(s) could rejoin its/their original rifle(s). Replica scopes and brackets are much cheaper to purchase and will not go up in value as much as a real scope and bracket would. As well a Model of 1907 U.S. leather rifle sling would be quite appropriate.
    Last edited by Seaforth72; 02-15-2018 at 02:48 AM.
    Colin MacGregor Stevens https://www.captainstevens.com WANTED: REL 5X scope; LB Scout Sniper Rifle windmill sight & furniture; C/|\ butt with built-in cheek rest; No. 4 71L0451, 28L0844, ASE-xxxx ; No.32 Mk. I SN 1042; Trials No. 4 rifle parts.

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  14. #7
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    They both likely appear to be genuine 'less telescope' rifles. As Colin says, selected for conversion, but the process was not finished in that they were never mated with their own scope & bracket. Still very desirable.

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    Senior Member ralfus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seaforth72 View Post
    Questions for ralfus:
    1. Do both rifles have the "S51" stamp on the underside of the butt? If not, which one has it? Yes, both have the S51
    2. Do either or both rifles have a serial number stamped into the upper surface of the butt e.g. 12345 and if so, what number on which rifle? Neither rifle has a scope number
    3. Do both have an "S" stamp on the right side on the small flat section of the body just below the bolt head? If only one has the "S", which serial number is it please? Yes, both do
    Thank you all for the comments. You have confirmed my suspicions. The owner of the rifles has decided to consign one of the rifles at my shop and it will be online later this month. I don't want to violate any adverising rules on this forum though.
    When he mentioned having these rifles I suspected put togethers from Century or somesuch, but luckily not the case. I am glad that I was wrong. Once I saw the rifles in person I believed them real but I am a novice on Enfields, hence coming here.

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    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
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    This forum even has a WTS section, so you can also sell them here..

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