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Thread: 2 WWII and 1 WWI helmets found - one with Camouflage Cover

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    Member AZshot's Avatar
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    2 WWII and 1 WWI helmets found - one with Camouflage Cover

    Hi all, I'm just starting to learn helmets, and picked these up this weekend.



    I think the lined one with the camo cover is WWII, the lining appears to be. It's a Firestone 22. It has a name written on the leather. But I can't get the liner out of the helmet, gently pulling it. I want to check the helmet itself, and the cover. Is there a trick to getting the liner apart from the steel?





    Also, does the camo cover look like it's WWII era, or later? I know nothing about that, but my dad was USMC in the late 1950s, and everything he brought back had a similar camo pattern.

    The WWI appears original by looking at the bales and seam connection. It has a partial leather strap inside. ZB49 stamp inside.



    The far right helmet has the front seam, and 652C it appears inside. Swivel bales, sewn on straps, metal buckle. It looks like the original cork and paint to me. Agree?

    How'd I do for $20 for all?!
    Last edited by AZshot; 09-22-2018 at 03:02 PM.

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    Really Senior Member Sunray's Avatar
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    The M1icon Helmet was virtually identical for the whole time they were issued. The cover is a Viet Nam era colouring. 1965 and later. Should be a manufacturer's ink label in it. Might be a repro though. If it's not coming off easily it may be stuck with rust. Oh and $20 is cheap. Even with the rough condition.
    Go here. U.S. helmet covers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunray View Post
    The M1icon Helmet was virtually identical for the whole time they were issued. The cover is a Viet Nam era colouring. 1965 and later. Should be a manufacturer's ink label in it. Might be a repro though. If it's not coming off easily it may be stuck with rust. Oh and $20 is cheap. Even with the rough condition.
    ...
    Desert southwest here, we don't get much rust. Also, from the estate of the owner, seriously doubt these old timers would have any repro stuff, they had generations of stuff at their house being sold. Also, I don't know what you mean the M1 helmet was virtually identical throughout production. The "virtually" is the details. Front seam, types of bales, types of cloth and color in the liner, rivet types all can tell you precisely if it's WWII issue. That's what I'm trying to confirm here.

    Do other experts agree it's a Viet Nam covering though? Because the liner is WWII. The other helmet is WWII, and when I get the cover off, I'll let you know on the other helmet.
    Last edited by AZshot; 09-22-2018 at 07:16 PM.

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    The liner may just be choked in with sand or time. Be gentle extracting it and don't use the suspension harness to pull, I imagine you already ruled that out. Just work with the edge of the liner, it may have been crammed in tight and grit holds it. The liner looks early, is there a grommet in the front center? The covers originally were HBT I think, like the head harness...which that harness appears to be. Once you get it apart, we'll see more.

    Yes, you did fine for cost.
    Regards, Jim

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    Hi, got it out. It's olive drab on top, and it has the grommet in the center front. The steel helmet looks newer, has the rim seam in the rear, and 1196A inside. The camouflage cover is reversible, and has a DSA stamp and 64 date. Here is what I'm thinking happened at the owners house. Someone took the WWII Firestone liner, which belonged in the earlier steel pot, and put it in this newer steel pot.

    I've corrected that, putting the liner into the other steel pot with the front seam. Does it appear they match up, in eras?

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Yes, the old steel pot and the liner from your description...should match. The newer steel outer still isn't junk though. Pics of the liner would help these guys though...to identify... Have a look here and you can identify the outer by the heat lot code. The liner too... US M1 steel helmet forum
    Regards, Jim

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    Member AZshot's Avatar
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    Thanks, will continue to check the newer steel one. It has a code 1196A inside. I put the camo cover with it.
    Last edited by AZshot; 09-23-2018 at 12:00 PM.

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    Here's another site to help you with that... Dating M1


    Lots of info there, yours is a WW2 shell. Also pictured is a little of the early HBT cover I spoke of so you can see...
    Regards, Jim

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    Senior Member Charlie303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZshot View Post
    How'd I do for $20 for all?!
    Bargain of the week I'd say.

    As Sunray says, Vietnam camo cover. Just like the first M1icon helmet I bought, had a Vietnam era cover and underneath the M1 helmet was a front seam WW2.

    WW2 M1s were made by the McCord radiator and manufacturing company of Detroit who made 90% of the 22 million helmets made during WW2. The other 10% were made by the Schlueter Manufacturing Company of St Louis. Schlueter stamped an 'S' under the heat lot number, so I'm assuming yours are McCord.

    Both are WW2 manufacture. The front seam 652C would have been made end September / beginning October 1943, and the rear seam 1196A March 1945. Very nice original paint/cork. Front seam M1 Has a later, possibly Korea, chinstrap. WW2 straps were a lighter OD.

    The liner looks very nice, WW2. Its missing the nape band at the back and the leather chinstrap. J Murray (https://jmurrayinc1944.com/) does good repros, but it would be nice to fit original WW2 - if you could find them. Probably cost a lot more than the 3 helmets! As Jim says, be very careful with the webbing in the liner, can be very delicate after 70+ years.

    Can we see some more pics of the liner and the rear seam M1?

    Great find, thanks!

    Cheers.

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    Member AZshot's Avatar
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    Thanks, I'm learning. I'm thinking the rear seam M1icon was reconditioned for Vietnam. It has a buckle that I think was barely used in WWII, plus it's the darker green color. I see two layers of paint on the outside, where there are chips there is an under layer. You don't think that Firestone liner went in this one?







    ---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------

    And the Firestone liner.

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