Winchester P-14, seeking its history

[Noobtubes]

Hi all, 'tubes here with my crown jewel that I'm hoping for y'all's opinion on: I have a winchester p-14 and bayonet that I came by as a pair some time ago, and its one of the only WW1 era firearms i've ever had that looks to be in its original state. I've thoroughly taken it apart and found Winchester marks on everything except the volley-sight plate and rear sight which are eddystone marked, and the stock, which has what may be a W on the front but scratches make it hard to make out. The handguard is obviously marked W and the wear pattern and patina are identical to the stock so they appear to be a matching set. The barrel and receiver match and the bore sparkles. It has a stock plug where I assume it once had a unit disk, is that necessarily evidence that it was issued for combat. This old girl has the most wonderful patina and i swear there are 4 small indentations in the right finger groove that feel like finger wear marks.

The bayonet may be the original issued but the person who sold it to me didn't know. Its a winchester mfg. pattern 13 bayonet marked "4-16" on the blade and the hilt has a unit marking: "308 2.6 A.S.H." and has a correct scabbard. It seems to me unlikely that these two met post-war but I guess its always possible.

I know that the British preferred winchester P-14's for actual combat but that their use was relatively rare. Anyone got any knowledge that could help shed light on this rifle's story?


Winchester P-14 - Album on Imgur

[browningautorifle]

The bayonet may be the original issued

That's not really possible as after 100 years...even after 6 months they would be swapped. Anyone that has been issued can attest. There was no issue of rifle with bayonet, they came as a list and came out a separate shipment crate.

Love to see pics though, always nice to see these. Also easier to figure out if we can see them.

[Noobtubes]

Haha sorry I didn't mean original issued I meant potentially originally in service with the same unit, but I guess if they were packed away separately there is really no telling.

[oldfoneguy]

It would be impossible to verify as bayonets were handed out from a crate down the line from where you were handed the rifle. Also keep in mind that there were no Eddystone bayonets as they never passed the British inspectors requirements. So all Eddystones would have to have a Winchester or Remington bayonet which would make a true purests head explode. If you could find the roles that would identify what bayonet was issued with which rifle you'd become a very rich man with the ability to answer 100's of thousands of questions!

[Promo]

Are you really located in Lebanon? If yes, are you aware if the P.14 rifle saw usage in Lebanon and were they marked with the Cedar in a circle? Thank you!

Edit: Err ... never mind. Didn't consider that there is a location in the US named after a particular country ....

[Noobtubes]

Haha gotcha! and no cedar in a circle on mine.

---------- Post added at 02:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 PM ----------

That makes sense, is anyone familiar with the bayonet's unit marking though?

[Brian Dick]

Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders

[Noobtubes]

SO I did some digging and here's the unit history for the marking on the bayonet, they were a second-line unit that stayed at home during the great war.

2/6th (Renfrewshire) Battalion Territorial Force
Sept 1914 Formed at Paisley and then moved to Falkirk as part of the 193rd Brigade of the 64th Division.
Autumn 1915 Moved to Forfarshire.
08.11.1915 Became the No. 10 Battalion.
Mar 1916 Resumed identity and moved to Norwich.
April 1917 Moved to Taverham and then Norwich.
Mar 1918 Left the 64th Division.
13.03.1918 Disbanded.

source: Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders - Regiment History, War Archives

Slightly disappointing as I'm trying to collect guns that did but it is still a cool piece of history and a phenomenal shooter: With a competent marksman working her she can hit a head-sized target at 475 meters off the battle sight easily. Its also kind of a cool connection because the Argyle & Sutherland highlanders are headquartered at sterling castle which I've actually been to. I think my best bets for getting a real war veteran in shootable original condition will be to get an early m1917 or no1 mk III.

[oldfoneguy]

Finding a P14 used in combat will be akin to finding a unicorn. From the very beginning the parts interchangeability relegated the P14 to second line units. The only chance one was used in combat is if one of those 2nd line units were attacked and that would be extremely specific and hard to prove.



Your correct in your assumption that a NoI MkIII or a M1917 would be a better bet as a combat veteran.