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    BIG BOYS GUNS

    As an ex Paratrooper we spent thousands of hours recognising tanks from every nation and learning every aspect of them, especially the Sovieticon ones obviously.
    227 tanks remain out of the original 376. The Britishicon Army require the conversions to be finished by 2025. It is assumed that Challenger 2 will remain in service until 2035. However it will be a big task for BAE or it's competitor Rheinmetall Defence.

    The tank shape seems to being going back to WW2 with more and more reliance on Chafe to deter missile strikes from the air, or have I a skewed view of tanks.
    Being half Germanicon half Irish, I have always rated the LEOPARD German tank as one of the best, what does your country have U.S and Canadaicon that compares on upgrades?



    Below images left to right: CHALLENGER 2 - LEOPARD - M1icon ABRAMS
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    Last edited by Gil Boyd; 07-09-2019 at 07:13 AM.
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    The problem is that, as I see it, tanks are a status symbol of the past. If you thought that MILAN spelled the end of the road for tanks, then JAVELIN certainly has put paid to them. Look at it this way....... An old chieftain, towed out on the ranges as a hard target would last a couple of months on a range until it was destroyed to a semi recognisable mass of steel. The same tanks used as hard targets against the Javelin last for weeks.

    When they were live firing Javelin against the targets you might see the missile turn over and look down as it searched out the target you aimed at. In that millisecond it took to hook on, a synthesized voice in the missile radioed back to the control point '........it's not their lucky day'. Valhalla was about to come..........

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    Very true Peter, but what's all this I heard from a serving Tank Regiment RSM at the Airborne Soldier unveiling on Saturday at Aldershot, that MOD have bought the Isreali Chaffe launchers fitted to the outside of the Challenger 2 upgrade.

    Is everybody doing that, surely its only useful against Air attack not Javelin type weapons, and presumably only useful just before the missile strikes anyway, and how would a tank crew know they were on the radar so to speak??
    Must be some experienced ex tankies on here!!

    JAVELIN VIDEO MOD

    Last edited by Gil Boyd; 07-09-2019 at 12:38 PM.
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    Canadaicon wouldn't have any tanks if the rat offspring of unmarried parents Liberals got their way. The CPC isn't any better either.
    Our Leopards are Leopard 1's bought in the 1970's and we have no way of moving them anywhere anyway. (At one time our NATO tasking was to reinforce Norwayicon. We couldn't get there with any heavy kit. Trudeau the Elder used it as his excuse to pull us out of Europe.)
    When our guys went to Afghanistan in 2007, we had to rent some Leopard A6M's because our's were out if date and we have no way of transporting pretty much anything bigger than a case of beer.
    Rumour has it The CF bought some used Leopard 2's from the Dutch. Lt.-Gen. Hillier, the former Chief of the Defence Staff, thought he could replace a tank with an LAV Dinky Toy. Idiot.
    "...An old Chieftain..." The old Chieftain in question was a W. W. II designed tank with W.W. II vintage armour. The Challenger 2, upgraded or not, is a typical Brit PBI tank design. Very slow in comparison to other tanks. 40 km/h (25 mph) off road vs the Leopard 1's 65 KPH. Still has a Point blank range of 1,000 meters though. See the Javelin/Milan crew. Kill the Javelin/Milan crew. From away over there.
    Spelling and Grammar count!

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    Mmmmmm....., Re your last para, I'm not quite sure that you are on the same page as me regarding our tanks Sunray. I'm sure that they both use the same main L7 Ordnance

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    What about the M1A2 Abrams? How does it compare? I was never a tread head so I'm admittedly ignorant about the performance. I did work as a contractor for GDLS who build them in Lima, Ohio but never heard much about the goings on in that world they're so diverse. I do remember something that was mentioned a lot when I was in the Airborne Infantry, "When you're in a tank, EVERYONE knows where you're at!" When I was in a line platoon, I was also qualified on the old Dragon wire guided AT missile and was quite proficient with it but knew sure as God made little green apples that if i missed, my arse was going to be toast in a real world scenario which fortunately never came to pass.

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    Would love to know from somebody what this Chaffe idea is all about?? I could understand a little if they used jamming technology, but Chaffe!!!

    This is interesting, not sure what happened to the LEOPARD on this list, The ABRAMS is apparently more maouverable than the CHALLENGER and can fire more accurate rounds!!:

    Currently top 10 best tanks in the world are these:

    M1A2 SEP (USAicon) ...
    Challenger 2 (United Kingdomicon) ...
    Armata (Russiaicon) ...
    Merkava Mk.4 (Israel) ...
    Type 90 (Japanicon) ...
    Leclerc (Franceicon) ...
    Oplot-M (Ukraine) ...
    T-90 (Russia) The T-90 is currently the only tank produced in quantity in Russia.

    Here's the Israeli Chafe system fitted to CHALLENGER 2 now called the "BLACK KNIGHT" on the rear of the turret where the smoke used to be
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    Last edited by Gil Boyd; 07-10-2019 at 03:33 AM.
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    Tanks are going to remain a status symbol and combat tool. For ever might be a long time but worth considering.

    Remember what happened after the Israeli tank forces met their equal with wire guided anti-tank missiles about 40 years ago? All tank nations immediately upgraded their tanks' anti missile capabilities and incorporated such technology into future tanks. Stalemate. We are still in the never ending competition of countering improvements in technology with further technology, and then further countermeasures.

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    I don't see tanks going out of favour anytime soon. Yes they can be more vulnerable than before but the reality is it is still a important tool. Ultimately it is Arty which wins battles.

    With modern technology the battlefield is terrifying (more so than the past). Drones that can kill you without even knowing they are there, the ability to track people based off their cellphone (and since its a addiction all it takes is one guy in the platoon to smuggle one to know where you all are), the ability to dismantle or listen into the communications grid, guided munitions which will adjust their aim in flight to hit you, etc. I am personally afraid to see what they shall come up with next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglelord17 View Post
    Ultimately it is Arty which wins battles.
    And of course Arty is the one that walks onto the objective and holds it. Arty roots out the defenders from their holes and keeps them out. You sure have visions...
    Regards, Jim

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