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Thread: Remington Pattern 14 canted front sight

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  1. #21
    Member chexquest87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by browningautorifleicon View Post
    The mark on the receiver seems to be double, side by side.



    I mean the font...
    I just thought the mark on the receiver looked deeper and therefore wider, but if it is two then I would assume it was done for a reason... as far as the font goes I wouldnít know- matching numbers and a 1916 barrel though.


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  3. #22
    Member chexquest87's Avatar
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    Just to update- I have ordered 40 rounds of privi .303 174 grain rounds (I like their cases for reloading) and will see how it shoots before taking further action, although I did get the front sight base off using some heat and hardwood! Sight key looked fine.

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  6. #23
    Really Senior Member oldfoneguy's Avatar
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    How is the keyway cut in relation to the witness mark? Is it dead on or somewhat off in any way? Although not common it could have been cut off center or maybe deeper on one side causing the key and sight base to lean.

  7. #24
    Member chexquest87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldfoneguy View Post
    How is the keyway cut in relation to the witness mark? Is it dead on or somewhat off in any way? Although not common it could have been cut off center or maybe deeper on one side causing the key and sight base to lean.
    The key way cut itself seems level as the key sits flush in the groove. As far as the key in relation to the witness mark on the bottom of the barrel and receiver, it is several degrees off to the right, which at least shows that the front sight was on correctly and wasnít damaged- the pin fits fine. It seems that either the barrel is rotated too far (which would seem odd as the witness marks line up), or the sight keyway was cut off center- which would seem to be the case as the front sight blade is heavily drifted and staked in place. Iíll see how it shoots. If itís way off Iíll take it to my gunsmith to look at it I suppose.

  8. #25
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Shoot first, alignment check after

    Two (hopefully helpful) comments:

    First, as has been pointed out right from the start: don't get agitated until you have given it a fair trial on the range. Short distance (50 or 100), off a sand sack - you want to test the rifle, not yourself.

    If the grouping is central on the horizontal axis, stop worrying.

    Second. The more I look at photos 3 and especially 4 in your post #15, the more I suspect that you have "bent ears". When and how is, a century later, hard to tell. But I think that this forms a large part of the optically unfavorable impression.

    So how does one check this? The method described is not exactly precision engineering, but adequate for the purpose.
    Remove the barrelled action from the stock. Forget witness marks - about the only unalterable baseline that has existed since the rifle was made is the flat on the bottom of the receiver, just behind the recoil plate. Take this as your reference. Further back, the flat around the magazine well may have been slightly twisted by barrel removal etc.

    Using a very flat table, preferably with a metal top, set up the barrelled action so that it is resting on a parallel sided block. The table does not have to be perfectly level, but if it has a twist in the surface, this will invalidate the check*. Now look at the muzzle end. For the moment, ignore the ears. Is the foresight blade centred above the barrel centre line? Since you cannot get at the barrel centre line directly, one has to try it indirectly. The following assumes that the bore is well enough centred in the barrel for our purposes.

    Place a set square on the table* so that the upright arm is touching one side of the barrel, right up close to the sight block. Use vernier calipers to measure the distance between the set-square arm and the side face of the foresight blade. This requires holding the calipers so that the jaw axis is parallel to the barrel axis, otherwise there will be an angular error.

    Repeat on the other side. The two measurements ought to be the same, at least as far as the measurement technique will allow. If they are within say 0.010", then I suggest that there is nothing wrong with the foresight/barrel/receiver alignment.

    Now measure the distance between the face of the ears and the outside of the barrel. I think that you will find that there is a noticeable difference between the two sides.

    If this all turns out as I reckon, then the ears are bent, but the sight alignment is OK. In which case, it will shoot just fine.

    Which brings us back to the start: give it a test-shoot first!


    *If the table does have a twist, then the set quare at the muzzle end must be placed on a block that has itself been set parallel to the top surface of the block supporting the receiver.
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 08-15-2019 at 06:30 AM.

  9. #26
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick View Post
    I suspect that you have "bent ears".
    Hard for me to tell from here...I have a hard time thinking the rifle has an off TDC sight from the factory. After shooting we'll have a better idea.
    Regards, Jim

  10. #27
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by browningautorifleicon View Post
    Hard for me to tell from here...
    Well, we both only have the photos to go by, so it's hard for me as well! But it's something that can be checked quite easily without expensive equipment - just a bit of careful setting-up.

    I'm guessing that the "ears" are part of a milled casting, and may have come out of the mould a bit skewy. If anyone knows more about how this component was made, please enlighten us all!

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  12. #28
    Really Senior Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
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    Something odd about the Knox Form / breech reinforce on that barrel. I don't recall seeing a "step' like that on any other P-14.

    There are also marks on the underside of the Knox form that look like modern Hebrew; not many places use that type of marking.

    The finish on the receiver body looks different from that on the barrel.

    My two cents worth is that it is a "bitza" that has been cobbled together by someone who is NOT an actual gunsmith or military armourer. P-14 barrels are notorious for being a VERY tight fit in the receiver. In the past, prior to removing the original military barrel, impatient folks would make a relief cut around the barrel, just forward of the receiver, to "unload" the stresses on the front of the receiver. Crude, but effective. B-14s are likewise notorious for NOT being exactly "interchangeable, and this applies to barrel breeching.

    I doubt that the last military owner would have just whacked a new barrel in without correctly aligning it; I suspect that this happened after it left official service.

    Check the rest of your major parts to ensure you have the correct receiver, bolt body and barrel for the particular "Mark" of P-14. The Mark 1* was developed to "tweak" feed problems related to the use of .303 ammo. The bolt body has extra "meat" on the front of the RH locking lug and SHOULD be marked with a "*". The rear face of the barrel SHOULD have circumferential relief cuts formed to clear this extended bolt lug and be marked with a "*". The receiver should also be stamped with a "*".

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  14. #29
    Really Senior Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
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    Maybe NOT a Hebrew stamp! Probably more of a a "casually applied" stamp.

    The Eddystone, (ERA), P-14s are notorious for being "non interchangeable" Remington (RE), (who used the design as the basis for their later Model 30 sporting rifle) and Winchester, (WRA), seemed to have better QC and MUCH less variability of "fit". As many folk discovered in later years, Eddystones often have EXTREMELY hard breech rings that made drilling and tapping for scope mounting into an "interesting challenge".

  15. #30
    Advisory Panel Brian Dick's Avatar
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    I have a bunch of rifle parts here including SMLE, LE No.4, Mauser 98, '03 Springfield, P'14 and US 1917. All imported from Israel many years ago. Just a thought but could it be an Israeli rebarrel job?

    My favorite shooting M'17 is a legitimate "bitza". It's an Eddystone with a Winchester barrel and mix of Remington, Eddystone and Winchester replacement parts. The bolt is a late replacement USMC manufacture. It may be a rebuild but it's right as rain.

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