+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: Pattern 1822 Infantry Officer's sword

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Senior Member lawrence_n's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Last On
    11-08-2019 @ 06:24 AM
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    129
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    01:38 PM

    Pattern 1822 Infantry Officer's sword

    Picked up a bit of a project sword. It's an 1822 pattern Infantry Officer's sword in very nice shape. The blade has no nicks or rust blossoms and remnants of the blue still remain. The grip has no wire or shark skin loss and is still nice and tight with no wiggle or play. Since the design of the blade itself was changed to a Wilkinson pattern in 1845, this sword had to be made between 1822-1845. I haven't seen one in this kind of condition for a long time. The bad news is that there's no scabbard and that's probably a hard item to find. The brass guard had been pretty badly bashed about but on a good note, the brass is fairly malleable and with some wood blocks and clamps I'm in the process of gently tweaking out the worst of the damage. I'm about 50% done and by the time I'm finished it'll be about 90% back to rights. Nice, eh?

    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN1269.JPG‎
Views:	68
Size:	823.5 KB
ID:	102873   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN1270.JPG‎
Views:	67
Size:	1.43 MB
ID:	102874   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN1271.JPG‎
Views:	62
Size:	1.81 MB
ID:	102875  

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire We specialise in military utensils and artefacts such as helmets, daggers, medals and badges, etc.  The on-line store is intended for personal browsing and searching of collecting objects. All items are provided historical value only and can be used for home collection or other purposes except of fascism, Nazism or other extremism manifestation or its propaganda. LIMITED TIME OFFER FROM THE AMERICAN GUNSMITHING INSTITUTE: Get Immediate Online Access To AGI's NEW Armorer's Course for Glock Pistols, Covering Every Generation of Glocks, Including the Latest Model 42/43 and Double Stack Pistols for ONLY $7.00! Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Chuck in Denver ... Buy-Sell-Trade .. Guns, Cars Motorcycles Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses. Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire
     

  3. #2
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 02:03 PM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    22,445
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    10:38 AM
    VERY nice sword, that's a pipe back isn't it... Seldom seen except in museums, the scabbard would have been of leather wouldn't it? Just brass fittings, that's why they didn't survive. Nice.
    Regards, Jim

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Senior Member lawrence_n's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Last On
    11-08-2019 @ 06:24 AM
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    129
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    01:38 PM
    Thread Starter
    It is indeed a pipe back with what was referred to as a "quill" point. These swords are around, but uncommon and especially in this condition. The scabbard would have been black leather with brass or gilt brass mountings. Unless there was a sword somewhere irreparably damaged but with a good scabbard, the odds against my finding a proper mating scabbard are pretty slim.

  6. #4
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 02:03 PM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    22,445
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    10:38 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by lawrence_n View Post
    the odds against my finding a proper mating scabbard are pretty slim.
    I wonder if a more recent copy of a Navy sword scabbard would fit this one? Those can be had and then sell the blade separate... You'd need to actually fit it first though...

    Last Pipebacks I saw was in Cornwall On and Ft Henry at Kingston... Still surprised me to see them even in museum.
    Regards, Jim

  7. #5
    Contributing Member Flying10uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last On
    Today @ 03:16 AM
    Location
    South West England, United Kingdom
    Posts
    3,393
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    06:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by lawrence_n View Post
    The brass guard had been pretty badly bashed about but on a good note, the brass is fairly malleable and with some wood blocks and clamps I'm in the process of gently tweaking out the worst of the damage. I'm about 50% done and by the time I'm finished it'll be about 90% back to rights.
    Beware of "Work Hardening" of the brass. Failure to do so may result in a fracture/breakage of the brass. Some grades of brass will "Work Harden" more easily than others.

    Sometimes things are best left "as is".

  8. #6
    Senior Member lawrence_n's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Last On
    11-08-2019 @ 06:24 AM
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    129
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    01:38 PM
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Flying10uk View Post
    Beware of "Work Hardening" of the brass. Failure to do so may result in a fracture/breakage of the brass. Some grades of brass will "Work Harden" more easily than others.

    Sometimes things are best left "as is".
    In some cases, I'd agree with you but with this guard specifically, the issues had to be addressed. I was, and am, very conscious of the quality of the brass and I was quite pleased that it proved to be so malleable. The key word in my post was "gently". It's already looking much better than it did and I estimate that I can correct about 90% of the damage. If the gods favour me, maybe a tad more.

  9. #7
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 02:03 PM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    22,445
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    10:38 AM
    The brass was an essential metal for cross guards and baskets, brass will take the edge of an opponent's blade and hold it as it digs in. This allows a parry. Steel later worked fine for using a basket to smash an opponent but at the time, it was simple enough to replace a smashed basket at battles end. I expect this one was bent through time after service, although I don't doubt for a minute this sword saw combat.
    Regards, Jim

  10. Thank You to browningautorifle For This Useful Post:


  11. #8
    Senior Member lawrence_n's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Last On
    11-08-2019 @ 06:24 AM
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    129
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    01:38 PM
    Thread Starter
    According the old guy from whom I bought it, the sword was found along with some other items in the rafters of an old barn in Oakville (On.) when it was still largely rural. To my eye, the damage appears to be crush related. Something fairly heavy was dropped on it or it was caught between two pretty solid objects. It may well have seen combat though it doesn't appear to have the edge that I'd associate with a battle sword. Still, I wouldn't want to get slashed with it.

  12. #9
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 02:03 PM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    22,445
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    10:38 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by lawrence_n View Post
    doesn't appear to have the edge that I'd associate with a battle sword.
    Hard to tell from here but if no nicks them maybe not. Even our current officers played with their swords and those saw some unusual damages... No doubt though, at the time they were a battle weapon. The regulations required that an officer "Report to the armorer and have an edge on his sword at all times in the event of war..." This only was removed about 1914...or just before or after... Long time to keep such a regulation.
    Regards, Jim

  13. Thank You to browningautorifle For This Useful Post:


  14. #10
    Senior Member lawrence_n's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Last On
    11-08-2019 @ 06:24 AM
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    129
    Local Date
    11-12-2019
    Local Time
    01:38 PM
    Thread Starter
    Well! I don't know if this makes it more valuable or not, I have some feelers out to those who know more than I, but it would seem that the sword was most likely an East India Company officer's sword. I was puzzled by the lack of ornamentation on the pommel and back of the brass grip. Pictures show a stepped pommel and a leaf patter climbing up the back of grip on the military swords and since they had to conform to accepted sealed patterns mine should have looked the same. The pommel on mine is plain and there is no decoration on the brass backstrap on the grip.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Japanese Officer's Sword markings ID Help
    By Sawraihchra in forum Edged Weapons Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-02-2019, 11:28 PM
  2. Pattern 1827 Naval Officer's sword
    By lawrence_n in forum Edged Weapons Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-24-2018, 08:03 PM
  3. Pattern 1827 Naval Officer's sword
    By lawrence_n in forum Edged Weapons Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-21-2018, 01:19 PM
  4. Unmarked French medical officer's sword--Klingenthal?
    By Boonie Stomper in forum Edged Weapons Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-30-2017, 11:28 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts