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  1. #11
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    Peter Laidler's Avatar
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    I don't know where the author of your documents got his info from Alan. The No4 barrels are suffixed with the letter C as not supplied separately. NOT so, we used to order them 10 at a time! The two groovers were still available new in the 60's as they were obsolescent and not obsolete, like the Mk3

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    Really Senior Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Laidlericon View Post
    I don't know where the author of your documents got his info from Alan. The No4 barrels are suffixed with the letter C as not supplied separately. NOT so, we used to order them 10 at a time! The two groovers were still available new in the 60's as they were obsolescent and not obsolete, like the Mk3
    It is this 1945 Manual - maybe the Aussies had a different system to the rest of the Commonwealth ?
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    Last edited by Alan de Enfield; 11-14-2019 at 04:17 PM.
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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    Contributing Member 22SqnRAE's Avatar
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    Picking up on Alan and Muffet's seemingly different approaches, I'd suggest to those sitting on the sidelines, that this relevant and interesting discussion about exact inaccuracies demonstrates the essential requirement for all Enfielditis sufferers to eject two words from their vocabulary, permanently:

    1. Always, and
    2. Never

    These two words can not be uttered with any confidence, relevance or accuracy when describing any aspect of the long and often confusing history of matters Lee Enfield.

    And for the purists, let's be clear that this does include Rifles No 4, 5, 7 8 and 9 and the "L' series of 8, 39, 42 and Indian 2A.

    Last edited by 22SqnRAE; 11-14-2019 at 10:57 PM. Reason: spelling
    Trying to save Service history, one rifle at a time...

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  7. #14
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    I couldn't agree more.......I've been saying never say 'never' & never say 'always' in relation to Lee Enfields for years. Many inaccuracies in otherwise good books are because people have been too dogmatic about, say, precise production figures, markings & so on. Sometimes there's something to be said for a little fence sitting......'most examples so far encountered are marked.....', rather than 'they are always marked.....' There's always some smart aXX down the road just waiting to contradict you!


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    Tell me about it DRP. Maybe in Australia barrels weren't available as a separate part. But to be honest I don't ever recall seeing a No4 in the Australianicon military. except in a classroom in Bandiana for some reason - probably instructional purposes. Someone did say that there were a few in different places. It was so 'rare' that I even got a copy of the tech info relating the even stranger and rarer Mk1/2 and 1/3 versions.

    But that apart, barrels were definately available.

  9. #16
    Really Senior Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
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    There were certainly No4 rifles in Australianicon service during WW2. I doubt that numbers were ever high. They can be seen in several photographs of troops in New Guinea, for a start. These MAY have been rifles diverted after the fall of Singapore, but who knows for sure. In the normal scheme of things, having "odd' rifles in such a combat zone would have caused some logistical problems. My father the motor mechanic (artillery unit) stated that some turned up in his unit while they were in Townsville. MAYBE they were to be used in rear echelon locations to release "standard" No.1 rifles to the pointy end. If you trawl through photos from the Australian War Memorial collection, you will also spot the odd P-14T being carried by Australian troops in odd place, but those at least were officially on issue to infantry battalions.

    In the same time-frame, the Japaneseicon "adopted" a significant quantity of "slightly-used" .303 small arms, especially Bren and Vickers guns. .303 is IDENTICAL to the Japanese 7.7 Rimmed round as adopted by their NAVY (and hence their Naval infantry) as a machine-gun cartridge. How many "recycled" guns turned up at the front line is unknown, but it is more likely, and for the same "logistical / spare parts" reasons, they were used in training and garrison situations. Anyone ever seen any Japanese "user-manuals" for such things?

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    Probably overthinking this a bit, but as the machinery was yank, the Aussies did their initial training on using the equipment over there, some of the staff, including two managers were from there, then I'd expect some of their terminology filtered into our system as well.

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    Talking of Oz terminology, when I came back to Englandicon, even my mum and sister couldn't understand what I was talking about. Even today I put my strides on in the morning or feel a but crook occasionally and whn I'm down in the dumps a bit, I'm packin' a sad....... The even sadder bit is that when I go back............ it all just trips off the tongue like I never left!

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    Fair Dinkum Cobber
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    Really Senior Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Boyd View Post
    Fair Dinkum Cobber
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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