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  1. #1
    Senior Member pocketshaver's Avatar
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    Harris gallery load

    the load is 8 grains of Bulls Eye for 30-06 and 7.62x54r with "jacketed" and unjacketed bullets in correct service weight range.

    To me that means the 148-150 grain jacketed bullet and unjacketed bullet is a no brainer. However what about the heavy weight heavy ball bullet of 170-180 grains for the 54r?

    Cast lead 170 grain, anyone see 7.9-8.3 grains of bulls eye as being too much?


    I tried asking over on cast bullets for this, but for some reason they found it "slanderous" to question arbitrary loading data from their golden boy so my account was deleted and all content removed. Even though it became a 3 day old account at 3 am today

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  3. #2
    Advisory Panel Parashooter's Avatar
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    8 grains Bullseye is a good "rat round" charge - and if we goof and dump a double charge of 16 grains, that's not a bad load either. Bullets in the 180-grain neighborhood are fine.

    Sample QuickLOAD estimates (NOT tested data!):

    Cartridge : .30-06 Spring.
    Bullet : .308, 180, Hornady RN 3075
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch or 84.84 mm
    Barrel Length : 22.0 inch or 558.8 mm
    Powder : Alliant BULLSEYE

    Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
    incremented in steps of 6.667% of nominal charge.
    CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

    Step Fill. Chg Vel. Engy Pmax Pmuz Burnt B_Time
    % - % -- Grains fps ft.lb psi psi - % --- ms

    -46.7 21 8.00 1237 611 13711 1953 100.0 2.576
    -40.0 24 9.00 1320 697 16209 2177 100.0 2.232
    -33.3 26 10.00 1398 781 18797 2402 100.0 2.037
    -26.7 29 11.00 1472 866 21483 2625 100.0 1.896
    -20.0 32 12.00 1542 950 24266 2846 100.0 1.784
    -13.3 34 13.00 1609 1034 27144 3066 100.0 1.691
    -06.7 37 14.00 1673 1119 30116 3285 100.0 1.612
    +00.0 39 15.00 1735 1203 33183 3502 100.0 1.542
    +06.7 42 16.00 1795 1288 36344 3718 100.0 1.481
    +13.3 45 17.00 1853 1373 39600 3932 100.0 1.423
    +20.0 47 18.00 1910 1458 42952 4145 100.0 1.368
    +26.7 50 19.00 1965 1543 46402 4355 100.0 1.319
    +33.3 53 20.00 2019 1629 49952 4565 100.0 1.274 ! Near Maximum !

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  6. #3
    Senior Member pocketshaver's Avatar
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    Thread Starter
    I assume for 54r the 8 grains is safe with 180 grain jacketed? I haven't gotten any sort of official information from alliant on it, but then again they said the 7 grain load with 150 grain jacketed by harris is a bad idea

  7. #4
    Advisory Panel Parashooter's Avatar
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    Your question indicates you may not be aware how little capacity difference there is between the .30/06 and 7.62x54R. Reduced loads for one cartridge are "safe" in the other.

    QuickLOAD estimates (NOT tested data!):

    Cartridge : 7.62 x 54 R Russ.Nagant
    Bullet : .308, 180, Hornady RN 3075
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.040 inch or 77.22 mm
    Barrel Length : 22.0 inch or 558.8 mm
    Powder : Alliant BULLSEYE

    Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
    incremented in steps of 6.667% of nominal charge.
    CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

    Step Fill. Chg Vel. Engy Pmax Pmuz Burnt B_Time
    % - % -- Grains fps ft.lb psi psi - % --- ms

    -46.7 22 8.00 1256 630 14298 1902 100.0 2.446
    -40.0 25 9.00 1340 718 16908 2122 100.0 2.172
    -33.3 28 10.00 1419 805 19625 2340 100.0 1.995
    -26.7 30 11.00 1494 892 22450 2558 100.0 1.862
    -20.0 33 12.00 1565 979 25382 2774 100.0 1.765
    -13.3 36 13.00 1633 1066 28419 2989 100.0 1.672
    -06.7 39 14.00 1699 1154 31561 3203 100.0 1.592
    +00.0 41 15.00 1762 1241 34807 3415 100.0 1.522
    +06.7 44 16.00 1824 1329 38158 3625 100.0 1.459
    +13.3 47 17.00 1883 1417 41614 3834 100.0 1.398
    +20.0 50 18.00 1941 1505 45178 4041 100.0 1.345
    +26.7 52 19.00 1997 1594 48852 4247 100.0 1.298 ! Near Maximum !
    +33.3 55 20.00 2052 1683 52637 4452 100.0 1.254 ! Near Maximum !
    Last edited by Parashooter; 12-26-2019 at 10:57 AM.

  8. #5
    Really Senior Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
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    Reduced velocities mean reduced spin-rate for a bullet of a given sectional density and LENGTH.

    Both the .30-06 and 7.62 x 54R use 1:10" twist as standard, as opposed to .308Win / 7.62NAT at 1:12 inches.

    The germans did some interesting work on sub-sonic 7.92 x 57 ammo in the last big one. They seem to have had problems with case volume and propellant load. Their solution was to reduce the effective volume of the standard rifle case by forming / inserting a liner that occupied a lot of the internal space, but left a small diameter cylindrical space in the center. Trying to get ANY smokeless propellant to ignite and burn CONSISTENTLY in a large volume is a bit of a drama. Reduce the available case volume and the burn rate will start to even out. The logical extension of this also originated in the same place and era.

    This was the "High / Low" pressure concept. contain the propellant in a small sealed "extra" chamber in front of the primer and then allow the propellant gases to bleed through small holes into the rest of the case ant then act on the projectile.

    Those happy campers who have used the M-79 and M-203, etc. family of weapons will have fired a "high /low" pressure system. Note that both those launchers have rifled barrels that are made from an Aluminium alloy, not a fancy and heavier steel. Mind you, the grenades are constructed with a light alloy casing, as well. The Germans developed a serious, anti-tank gun that employed the system to fire fin-stabilized shaped-charge warheads. The other interesting feature odf such systems is the greatly reduced "flash and blast" signature, compared to conventional artillery and "recoil-less" weapons like Bazookas and similar.

    If you want "down-range" performance with slow bullets, you either need REALLY fast rifling twists to stabilize long, heavy bullets, OR a fatter bullet; the 500gn lead slug from a .45-70 works quite well as subsonic speed.

  9. #6
    Really Senior Member RCS's Avatar
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    Years ago in one of the handloading magazines there was an article where 30-06 cases were opened up and a 223 cartridge was
    inserted into the 30-06 case. The 30-06 case was resized back to normal spec. I believe the 223 case had the pocket drilled out.

    These were used for reduced loads

  10. #7
    Senior Member pocketshaver's Avatar
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    Thread Starter
    finally had the time to play with them. Very interesting little experiment.

    Was surprised I couldn't tell the holes in paper from the holes made by a 22.

    No recoil whatsoever. Only gun movement during firing was made by me swaying.

    Had to feed one at a time, partially chambering by fingers. Just not enough weight for the feed system oddly.

    less noise then 22lr standard velocity. So it was fun.


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