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    Member 22_boomer's Avatar
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    Making screws for the 71/84 Mauser.

    I don't have access to a lathe so all my work is done by hand. I need to make the two screws that hold the receiver in the rifle stock -- some call them trigger guard screws. The front screw is short and goes in through the trigger guard and screws into the receiver. The rear screw is long and goes through the rear of the receiver then through the stock and screws into the trigger guard. They are both the same diameter at 1/4". I don't think I can buy screws that I would feel safe with so I plan to get bolts to convert to screws by making the heads the correct size, slot them, cut the bolt to the correct length and cut the threads with a special die. My problem is I don't know what grade the screws are for the 71/84 Mauser -- I would imagine they are the same grade as the screws used in newer Mausers up to the model 98. Also, would it be OK to anneal the section that I will be threading and then re-harden. I am not sure how well the die will cut threads on a bolt shaft that hardened steel.

    Thanks for any help,
    Boomer

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    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    1) IMHO it is not necessary to use hardened steel for this application. The system is bolted into a wooden stock, and the wooden stock is held by you? So how much thrust can your shoulder take, compared with the shear strength of plain mild steel bolts? Something of the order of 1% I would guess, the shear strength being quite a few tons!

    2) Trying to cut threads on a hardened steel bolt is just going to ruin your die. You don't need it (see 1) so don't try it.

    3) The system screws should be cinched up to hold the system firmly in the wood, Think of the stock wood as being a thick spring washer between the system and the trigger plate. The wood should remain elastic, and not be permanently deformed by crushing. Firmly enough is (for me) "two thumbs" torque on a 6" tommy bar, not a wheelbrace-strongarm performance.

    4) More important is to install a close-fitting pillar for the rear screw if there is not one there already. The pillar is to prevent the system being pushed back in the wood by the recoil. Looseness allows the tang to slam into the back end of the cutout, leading in time to the all-too frequently observed split in the neck.

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    Member vykkagur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22_boomer View Post
    I don't have access to a lathe so all my work is done by hand. I need to make the two screws that hold the receiver in the rifle stock -- some call them trigger guard screws. The front screw is short and goes in through the trigger guard and screws into the receiver. The rear screw is long and goes through the rear of the receiver then through the stock and screws into the trigger guard. They are both the same diameter at 1/4". I don't think I can buy screws that I would feel safe with so I plan to get bolts to convert to screws by making the heads the correct size, slot them, cut the bolt to the correct length and cut the threads with a special die. My problem is I don't know what grade the screws are for the 71/84 Mauser -- I would imagine they are the same grade as the screws used in newer Mausers up to the model 98. Also, would it be OK to anneal the section that I will be threading and then re-harden. I am not sure how well the die will cut threads on a bolt shaft that hardened steel.

    Thanks for any help,
    Boomer
    Couple of things: If you end up having to use industrial screws, you're fine as long as you use high strength fasteners. Bolts, for example, come in Grade 8 for strength. Screws are also available in high-strength options, more than adequate for this. You didn't post a picture, and I'm no authority on Mausers, but the receiver/trigger guard/barrel bolts I've seen have oval head countersunk heads. I seem to recall a discussion on another forum about Paul Mauser using Britishicon thread forms on barrels (don't quote me on this), so don't assume they're either unified or metric threads. Another thought: Outfits like Numrich sell hardware for other models of Mauser. That might be a starting point for you. They show Mauser bolts, long, fully-threaded, possibly the right thread and head form for your rifle, that you could modify. Just some ideas to ponder. Sending you a PM.

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    Member 22_boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick View Post
    1) IMHO it is not necessary to use hardened steel for this application. The system is bolted into a wooden stock, and the wooden stock is held by you? So how much thrust can your shoulder take, compared with the shear strength of plain mild steel bolts? Something of the order of 1% I would guess, the shear strength being quite a few tons!

    2) Trying to cut threads on a hardened steel bolt is just going to ruin your die. You don't need it (see 1) so don't try it.

    3) The system screws should be cinched up to hold the system firmly in the wood, Think of the stock wood as being a thick spring washer between the system and the trigger plate. The wood should remain elastic, and not be permanently deformed by crushing. Firmly enough is (for me) "two thumbs" torque on a 6" tommy bar, not a wheelbrace-strongarm performance.

    4) More important is to install a close-fitting pillar for the rear screw if there is not one there already. The pillar is to prevent the system being pushed back in the wood by the recoil. Looseness allows the tang to slam into the back end of the cutout, leading in time to the all-too frequently observed split in the neck.
    I sent an e-mail to "Foster" who makes trigger guard screws for Mausers and asked what the grade hardness is on their bolts. Still waiting for a reply but in the meantime ordered a pack of trigger guard screw blanks from Brownells. There are 20 in a pack so I'll have more than enough to practice with. The Mauser stock I got has the rear pillar in place and is in good condition. Thanks for the information, it makes me feel a lot more comfortable about making the screws and being safe firing this rifle. I have another stock that I swap between this action and another action with a longer barrel. I didn't like doing that and wanted a dedicated stock for this shorter barreled action but the 71/84 Mauser stocks are hard to find.

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    Member 22_boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vykkagur View Post
    Couple of things: If you end up having to use industrial screws, you're fine as long as you use high strength fasteners. Bolts, for example, come in Grade 8 for strength. Screws are also available in high-strength options, more than adequate for this. You didn't post a picture, and I'm no authority on Mausers, but the receiver/trigger guard/barrel bolts I've seen have oval head countersunk heads. I seem to recall a discussion on another forum about Paul Mauser using Britishicon thread forms on barrels (don't quote me on this), so don't assume they're either unified or metric threads. Another thought: Outfits like Numrich sell hardware for other models of Mauser. That might be a starting point for you. They show Mauser bolts, long, fully-threaded, possibly the right thread and head form for your rifle, that you could modify. Just some ideas to ponder. Sending you a PM.
    Thanks for the reply and Numrich does have some parts for my 71/84 Mauser but not the front or rear trigger guard screws. Those screws are 1/4" -22tpi and are whitworth threads. Brownells sells a 1/4" -22tpi die but is 60 degrees not the 55 degrees on whitworth threads. I have some familiarity with whitworth threads since I worked on British equipment years ago. It seemed that a standard screw would fit in a whitworth nut but a whitworth screw would not work in a standard nut. I guess I'll find out if I remembered correctly when I get all the parts together. The picture is of my short barreled action in it's stock that I just finished. It was a sporterized action with the barrel cut to 20" when I got it. It's in the stock using the screws from a long barreled version I have. The scout scope was installed because my eye's are going bad and I would not do that to a full rifle.

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    Member vykkagur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22_boomer View Post
    Thanks for the reply and Numrich does have some parts for my 71/84 Mauser but not the front or rear trigger guard screws. Those screws are 1/4" -22tpi and are whitworth threads. Brownells sells a 1/4" -22tpi die but is 60 degrees not the 55 degrees on whitworth threads. I have some familiarity with whitworth threads since I worked on Britishicon equipment years ago. It seemed that a standard screw would fit in a whitworth nut but a whitworth screw would not work in a standard nut. I guess I'll find out if I remembered correctly when I get all the parts together. The picture is of my short barreled action in it's stock that I just finished. It was a sporterized action with the barrel cut to 20" when I got it. It's in the stock using the screws from a long barreled version I have. The scout scope was installed because my eye's are going bad and I would not do that to a full rifle.
    https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1hSZpng2-1.jpg
    Very impressive! I'm not a fan of scout scopes either, but I know what You mean about the eyes. Mine were never able to use open sights at any age. If you can't drill and tap for scope mounts or a good aperture sight, this is your best option. You do nice work!

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    Member 22_boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vykkagur View Post
    Very impressive! I'm not a fan of scout scopes either, but I know what You mean about the eyes. Mine were never able to use open sights at any age. If you can't drill and tap for scope mounts or a good aperture sight, this is your best option. You do nice work!
    Thanks for the compliment! you would not believe how many years it took to collect all the parts to get to this point. The problem with the old action is the bolt handle comes up right were a scope would be and the rear of the receiver is split to allow the bolt handle to move back through it. the original owner of the receiver had tried a side mount with an offset scope but that turned out really bad. That was one of many reasons I got the barreled receiver so cheap.

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    Member vykkagur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22_boomer View Post
    Thanks for the compliment! you would not believe how many years it took to collect all the parts to get to this point. The problem with the old action is the bolt handle comes up right were a scope would be and the rear of the receiver is split to allow the bolt handle to move back through it. the original owner of the receiver had tried a side mount with an offset scope but that turned out really bad. That was one of many reasons I got the barreled receiver so cheap.
    Oh, I believe! I've got a slowly-growing pile of parts for several ongoing projects. I'm in Canadaicon, and it's doubly-hard here.

    A split bridge with a straight bolt handle is a bad situation for scope mounting, for sure. Offset scopes are really a poor solution; you still end up banging your knuckles and the ergonomics can really suck, depending on the set-up. I use a tip-off side mount (Lo-Swing) on Carcano , but because of the clip loading, since the bolt handle's already bent. I'm not sure if that would be any easier on the knuckles with a straight one.



    (Not my rifle, by the way. Just pulled this pic online.)

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    You might try OWS they used to have parts for old mausers.

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    Member 22_boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rollerbill View Post
    You might try OWS they used to have parts for old mausers.
    Nothing for the 71/84 Mauser but thanks for the reply.


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