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Thread: Parker Hale and MoD sales of No.4 Mk.2 rifles

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  1. #1
    Member DaveWales's Avatar
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    Parker Hale and MoD sales of No.4 Mk.2 rifles

    Hello, this is my first post so I hope Iíve got the etiquette right.

    Iím trying to research what happened to the ROF Fazakerley No.4 Mk2. Rifles made in 1956.

    I read on one of the other milsurps threads on another part of the website that is now closed that rifles were sold to the commercial trade in 1956. Iíve also seen some old images of No.4 Mk.2ís in a Parker Hale catalogue.

    Does anyone have any info on either the MoD sales side or the Parker Hale buy side?

    Iím particularly interested if any went in an order to DCRA in 303 calibre.

    Thanks


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    Member 55recce's Avatar
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    Seeing as no one else is chipping in

    I don't think that would be likely. I am pretty sure that Long Branch Enfields exist with 1955 and 1956 dates. DCRA would likely get them locally rather than from the UKicon.

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    Member DaveWales's Avatar
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    Thank you for the response. Someone else has also suggested separately that itís unlikely that the DCRA purchased any. They confirmed Parker Hale, NRA, fultons etc. could buy new no.4 mk.2ís from the MoD until the late 60ís. It would be interesting to understand how to identify these rifles and if not the DCRA then who purchased them if any in orders of a hundred plus.

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    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveWales View Post
    Thank you for the response. Someone else has also suggested separately that it’s unlikely that the DCRA purchased any. They confirmed Parker Hale, NRA, fultons etc. could buy new no.4 mk.2’s from the MoD until the late 60’s. It would be interesting to understand how to identify these rifles and if not the DCRA then who purchased them if any in orders of a hundred plus.
    The DCRA did not purchase rifles for sale to members as I understand it.

    From the available documents we know that individual members of the Provincial Rifle Associations were able to purchase Enfield .303 and .22 rifles directly from the Canadianicon Military.

    Many if not most of these rifles would have been Long Branch manufactured, although many Savage and Britishicon manufactured No4MkI rifles with Canadian property markings exist.

    The .303 No4 rifles converted to 7.62 NATO (commonly called DCRA rifles) were sent by their owners thru the DCRA to CAL to be converted to 7.62 NATO - these rifles are composed of every manufacturer and model which existed in c.1964 (No4MkI, No4MkI*, No4MkI/2, No4MkI/3 and No4Mk2 rifles).

    It is recorded that if the supplied action failed inspection, the receiver and/or bolt body was replaced with an un-numbered Long Branch No4MkI* action from stores (mostly dated 1945 & 1955-56)- this is one reason so many "DCRA" 7.62 Long Branch actions show British/Savage or out of sequence by date serial numbers - and no sign of removal of a previous number.

    I have owned several "DCRA" 7.62 rifles which were built on No4MkI/3 LB and Savage receivers (all converted to MkI/3 status in the UK, for the UK military) and quite a number built on mid 1950's British No4Mk2 actions.

    Fulton's, Parker-Hale and several other British retailers were happy to sell by mail order to Canadian riflemen, many of whom travelled to the UK annually to compete in the matches.
    Last edited by Lee Enfield; 01-21-2020 at 02:09 AM.
    BSN from the Republic of Alberta

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    I know at least one person who was active at that time and has an unusual degree of knowledge and expertise in the "hardware" side of things. From his statements you bought your own rifle and if you wanted it converted you sent it in to Long Branch where it was magnafluxed and hardness tested. If it passed the conversion was done, if not you found another. It seems you could also send in a replacement bolt if for example only your bolt failed the inspection. I assume that having the people and expertise they then did, Long Branch would have lapped in the new bolt - hard to believe they would have done anything else considering the higher pressures of 7.62x51. Many shooters didn't want to take time to send in their best or only .303 No.4 and so be without it for some time and so would buy what they could and send that in for conversion, which perhaps explains the wide variety actions seen. Some could afford to buy say, a new No.4 Mk2 from Parker Hale and some could not. I would expect that Long Branch also test fired and generally ensured that rifles were set up to given minimum standard.
    "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." W.L.S.C..

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    Could ask Leeds Armoury they might have some idea!
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    Iíve posted previously via the HBSA emailing list a few months ago but no one had any ideas there. Iíve found several rifles all marked the same with a circle in a c and a n four digit serial number. They are all no.4 mk.2ís. Iím curious where they came from. I thought they were DCRA rifles but now Iím not so sure.

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    Can you post a couple of close up shots and I will ask the experts who worked on the rifles!
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    Member DaveWales's Avatar
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    Thank you very much. It’s the same rifle that was discussed in the thread below

    https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=67742

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    I have a No4Mk2 like that too. I believe that it's a "commercial" manufactured Mk2...

    What they would call "grey market" today...ie) not really authorized, but no one said that we couldn't...

    Otherwise it would carry standard UKicon production coding:
    "PF 2/53 A1234" or "UF 2/56 A1234"
    Last edited by Lee Enfield; 01-21-2020 at 08:24 PM.

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