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  1. #1
    Senior Member pocketshaver's Avatar
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    collecting by war/region

    A lot of people will hate anyone who collects a "Nazi" or "axis" weapon no matter the reason for it. Its considered generally retarded and dumb as hell by normal people.

    But here is a question for everyone, if its "evil" to collect a german rifle or pistol from ww2 because it MIGHT have been used to shoot a jew or gypsy, but NOT because it was used to shoot an American,,,,,

    then why is it acceptable to go ga-ga and purchase Vietnam production and Vietnam issued Chinese SKS rifles that WERE used to commit atrocities on American forces?

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    Contributing Member Ovidio's Avatar
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    Yes, completely. Guns are things, they do not kill. They are used to kill. That makes all the difference in the world.
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    Senior Member pocketshaver's Avatar
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    you don't seem to be getting it,,,,

    if its evil to collect an old surpluse german rifle that MIGHT have been used to shoot a gypsy or jew in ww2, then how can it be GOOD to buy a Chinese sks that WAS used to kill American troops in vietnam

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    Contributing Member muffett.2008's Avatar
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    Who says it's evil? As collectors we look at the firearm as a tool, not a weapon....an important link in our evolutionary history.


    I lost 2 uncles in Malaya....But that doesn't stop me buying Japaneseicon cars.
    Last edited by muffett.2008; 03-26-2020 at 05:02 AM.

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    Contributing Member Ovidio's Avatar
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    That’s it. It’s not evil. It is stupid to think that way. When people start with such arguments I politely change topic or cut it off if they insist. No one is intelligent enough to make a stupid understand his stupidity...
    34a cp., btg. Susa, 3° rgt. Alpini

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    Contributing Member rcathey's Avatar
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    The prices would not indicate that K98s and Lugers are considered more evil than Chinese SKSs.

    ...unless evilness is worth a premium!
    Looking at Party Leader PPKs, maybe it is!!

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    Pocketshaver,

    Surely Milsurps covers ALL spheres of weaponry of Military Surplus, thats what this sites all about, and thus its name.

    Many countries weapons have been responsible for being used to defend ones rights, and some used in some really bad situations, as you will be aware of, living in the States and its history of the 2nd Amendment of a Right to Bear Arms.

    I am sure many gun owners on here and other sites hold weapons that have been used in various wars and conflicts around the world, and might not know their individual history.

    I will add as an ex Military man and ex Police Officer, a weapon is fine in the hands of a trained user, it is that user that makes the decision to fire it, not the weapon?

    So in short not really sure what your point is?
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    Contributing Member Aragorn243's Avatar
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    The only people I ever hear or see calling NAZI items evil are idiots that don't know or understand history. They are usually leftists that left to their own ends actually are guilty of a lot of the things the NAZI's did. People are evil, items are not, symbols are not, it's what people use those items for or symbols for which are evil, not the items themselves. The swastika for example is a symbol of good luck around much of the world or at least it was until Hitler decided to adopt it for his purposes.

    I own a token from the 1933 Worlds Fair in Chicago that has a swastika prominently displayed on it.

    There are a lot of people in the world that have little to do so they look for things to be offended by. It seems to give them purpose to get through the day. Doesn't make their opinions valid. If you allow them to control these things, once the conquer one, they will find another.

    I put on presentations and while it is not a common question, it does occasionally come up. Do I know if any of the rifles I have killed anyone. The answer is obviously no but the odds are high that several in my collection have although which ones is impossible to say. Follow up question is usually, does it bother you and again, the obvious answer is no, not something I dwell on. The knowledge that it is possible is there but it doesn't change anything. There are going to be people out there that will say they could never own something that they thought could have killed someone but those people aren't coming to my presentations.

    What I see as evil is the attempt to hide or change the historical record or in extremes, outlaw all references to it. I'm disgusted with the attempts to destroy the history and symbols of the Confederacy here in the US and the same efforts Germanyicon has made concerning the NAZIS after the war. We are supposed to learn from past mistakes, not hide from them and simply because an event happened, that doesn't criminalize the entire population involved.

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    Contributing Member Ovidio's Avatar
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    +1. Perfect!
    34a cp., btg. Susa, 3° rgt. Alpini

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    Contributing Member Eaglelord17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
    A lot of people will hate anyone who collects a "Nazi" or "axis" weapon no matter the reason for it. Its considered generally retarded and dumb as hell by normal people.

    But here is a question for everyone, if its "evil" to collect a german rifle or pistol from ww2 because it MIGHT have been used to shoot a jew or gypsy, but NOT because it was used to shoot an American,,,,,

    then why is it acceptable to go ga-ga and purchase Vietnam production and Vietnam issued Chinese SKS rifles that WERE used to commit atrocities on American forces?
    Why is it acceptable to buy a Trapdoor Springfield when it could have been used to genocide the natives? Why is it acceptable to buy a Krag knowing it could have been used to murder Filipinos? Why is it acceptable to buy Lee Enfields knowing that they could have been used to kill the Boers? Why is it acceptable to buy a Japaneseicon rifle, knowing it could be complicit in all the atrocities they committed in WWII. Why is it acceptable to buy a M1 Garand when it could have been used to commit war crimes in WWII (or anywhere it served afterwards)? Why is it acceptable to buy a Vietnam M16icon parts kit knowing it could have been used in the My Lai Massacre or any other atrocity committed by the Americans in Vietnam?

    Everyone, and I repeat EVERYONE has some darkness to their nations history. Pretending that you don't is a ignorant thing to do. Some were more overt than others, but ultimately everyone has some sort of dark tale, its a factor of us all being human.

    Collecting takes many forms. People might collect Nazi items to remind us of the atrocities they committed. They might collect it because they are interested in that history (it is a fascinating time period/subject, if it wasn't there wouldn't be so many books/shows/movies, etc. on it). People might collect it because they are interested in the arms development. And I am sure there is tons of other reasons as to why they might collect Nazi items.

    Personally my collection is mainly Swissicon and WWI era Bulgarian. Why? I like the Swiss craftsmanship and their history. I also like WWI Bulgarian history as they played a large part in WWI which is often forgotten. Recently I have been thinking of collecting action types. Why? Because recently I have been getting more interested in the quality of the manufacturing/design of firearms and variety is the spice of life. Ultimately I don't have to justify why I collect what I collect to anyone. Its a personal decision. If they don't like the type of stuff I collect, that's too bad. I don't tell others what to own, just as they don't get to tell me what to own.

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