+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Help identifying / verifying a No4 Mk1 T

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Member Pete110119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Last On
    Today @ 03:06 AM
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    37
    Local Date
    05-27-2020
    Local Time
    10:42 AM

    Help identifying / verifying a No4 Mk1 T

    Hi Folks, anyone offer any help on this rifle. Looking for possible history, is it legit, any pointers. Thanks in advance.


  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
     

  3. #2
    Advisory Panel
    Roger Payne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 08:28 PM
    Location
    Sutton Coldfield, UK.
    Posts
    2,648
    Local Date
    05-27-2020
    Local Time
    09:42 AM
    It looks a real one to me, but there are two caveats.

    Firstly, it is not in original WW2 trim as it has seen Indian service. Some of the 4T's used by the Indians were converted to Mk1/2 trigger configuration. Probably at the same time as this was done the original wartime markings were linished off & the rifles re-serialled SMLE style on the RHS of the receiver ring. They were also marked on the RHS of the butt socket by the Indians. From what I recall they are generally dated 1962 or 63 here. This is not the original date of manufacture, but the date of the Indian refurb/upgrade.

    Secondly, with very few exceptions, Indian rifles had a very hard life & usually look........er, how can I put it.....'well loved' by the time they hit the collector/civvy shooter market. This one is very pretty & I am sure it has been refinished. The wood also looks to be a replacement set, & lacks the so-called 'Ishy screw'. It is difficult to be sure one way or the other, but it is quite possible that the scope was therefore mated to this rifle relatively recently.

    But is it a real 4T? I'd say, yes, but it didn't look quite the same as it does now when it left Holland & Hollands in 1944 (or whenever).

  4. Thank You to Roger Payne For This Useful Post:


  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #3
    Member Pete110119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Last On
    Today @ 03:06 AM
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    37
    Local Date
    05-27-2020
    Local Time
    10:42 AM
    Thread Starter
    Thanks Roger, what you tell me pretty much goes along with my own appraisal / assumption and confirms what Ive been told. I would be greatfull for any further info on Indian service No4 T's just to put some history around the rifle. Ive searched the Internet and not come up with much.

  7. #4
    Administrator

    Site Owner
    Badger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Age
    72
    Posts
    12,446
    Local Date
    05-27-2020
    Local Time
    04:42 AM
    Follow Badger On Twitter Add Badger on Facebook Visit Badger's Youtube Channel
    Real Name
    Doug
    My Videos in Video Club
    12
    Try typing "indian no.4(t)"any other text variant in Milsurps.Com search box in the top right corner of the website.

    Lots of threads on the subject.

    Regards,
    Doug

  8. #5
    Advisory Panel
    Roger Payne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 08:28 PM
    Location
    Sutton Coldfield, UK.
    Posts
    2,648
    Local Date
    05-27-2020
    Local Time
    09:42 AM
    I'm not aware of a lot of info on the rifles that saw service in India TBH Pete. People ask questions about them on this forum from time to time, so it might be worth trawling the relevant archived threads here. AFAIK the Indians never set up any 4T's of their own, though it is sometimes said they did, but the few claims I know about were rifles such as the one in question here, that had been linished clean of all original markings. Often, when you look carefully, you may see clues as to the original rifle manufacturer, such as a magazine cut-off slot indicating a Trials rifle, or the rifle may be a Mk1* indicating Long Branch or Savage manufacture. The Indians did not convert all of their rifles to Mk1/2 spec - a lot were left as Mk1's (or now & then, as Mk1*'s) & these retain their original markings, though they often have the receiver side wall designation 'No4 Mk1' freshened up by hand stamping. Not all do, & I have had a couple of nice 43 BSA's & a lovely 44 BSA that were ex-Indian rifles. I suspect the 44 was virtually unfired, & must have spent its service life on the officer's mess wall to have escaped in such good condition!


  9. #6
    Member Pete110119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Last On
    Today @ 03:06 AM
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    37
    Local Date
    05-27-2020
    Local Time
    10:42 AM
    Thread Starter
    Thanks Doug.. ive now worked out how this site is set up and found the search button, which has got me twice as far already. Thanks Roger, i've this Indian and 2 other No4 T's heading my way, I bought them last week. My intention is to sell 2 onward and keep the most interesting one for my collection. Only other Enfield I have is a No4 Mk2 that i was presented with by my last unit when I left the Army and an L1A1 i bought about 3 years ago that was rebarreled and civilianised by LDT. Ive never worked on a No4 much, but do know my way around the L42. I', looking forward to the rifle's arriving.

  10. Thank You to Pete110119 For This Useful Post:


  11. #7
    Really Senior Member Seaforth72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 09:55 PM
    Location
    Richmond, British Columbia, CANADA
    Posts
    323
    Local Date
    05-27-2020
    Local Time
    01:42 AM
    Add Seaforth72 on Facebook
    Real Name
    Colin MacGregor Stevens
    Colin MacGregor Stevens https://www.captainstevens.com WANTED: REL 5X scope; LB Scout Sniper Rifle windmill sight & furniture; C/|\ butt with built-in cheek rest; No. 4 71L0451, 28L0844, ASE-xxxx ; No.32 Mk. I SN 1042; Trials No. 4 rifle parts.

  12. #8
    Really Senior Member Roy W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 05:00 PM
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    309
    Local Date
    05-27-2020
    Local Time
    03:42 AM

  13. #9
    Really Senior Member Seaforth72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 09:55 PM
    Location
    Richmond, British Columbia, CANADA
    Posts
    323
    Local Date
    05-27-2020
    Local Time
    01:42 AM
    Add Seaforth72 on Facebook
    Real Name
    Colin MacGregor Stevens
    Some No. 4 (T) rifles in Indian service retained their original manufacturing's name or code along with the serial number. Others, like the one under discussion, appear to have had most of their original markings removed and Indian markings put on.

    Here are some serial numbers apparently assigned by the Indian Rifle Factory Ishapore.
    A0075T No. 4 Mk. I /2 (T)
    A0138T No. 4 Mk. I /2 (T)
    A0152T No. 4 Mk. I /2 (T) <<<<<
    A0157T No. 4 Mk. I /2 (T)
    A0250T L42A1
    A0257T No. 4 Mk. I /2 (T)
    A0295T No. 4 Mk. I /2 (T)
    A0324T No. 4 Mk. I /2 (T)
    A0342T No. 4 Mk. I /2 (T)
    A0539T No. 4 Mk. I /2 (T)
    A1173T ? No. 4 Mk. I /2 (T)
    Last edited by Seaforth72; 04-05-2020 at 04:40 PM.
    Colin MacGregor Stevens https://www.captainstevens.com WANTED: REL 5X scope; LB Scout Sniper Rifle windmill sight & furniture; C/|\ butt with built-in cheek rest; No. 4 71L0451, 28L0844, ASE-xxxx ; No.32 Mk. I SN 1042; Trials No. 4 rifle parts.

  14. #10
    Member Pete110119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Last On
    Today @ 03:06 AM
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    37
    Local Date
    05-27-2020
    Local Time
    10:42 AM
    Thread Starter
    Aye thats' the one Roy, and 2 more from Richard at Divisesgunsmith.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Help verifying markings on Canadian Snider carbine
    By #1oilman in forum Milsurps General Discussion Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-15-2017, 03:07 PM
  2. Help identifying KA-BAR
    By jp3isme in forum Edged Weapons Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-11-2016, 10:13 AM
  3. Help identifying
    By nhetzer in forum Japanese Rifles
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-12-2016, 09:32 PM
  4. Need Help Identifying a No.4 Mk2
    By 728shooter in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04-28-2015, 01:32 PM
  5. Please help me verifying this 26 SKS
    By Lonely Gunny in forum Soviet Bloc Rifles
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-11-2012, 11:57 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts