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  1. #1
    Contributing Member Atticus Thraxx's Avatar
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    No.4 T serial vs req numbers

    First, what a wonderful site. I inherited a No 4 Mk 2 T built in 1944. On the H.B.M Co .#32 scope the req number is 11138. That number appears on the top of my stock as well. But the serial number on the trigger band(?) is D35598. This number is on the bolt handle and scope mount too. So I think I have a mix and match of parts but can anyone tell me how the requisition number is different from a serial number? Also the mount, it almost feels like iron. on it the front rings are stamped Z228 and the rear mounts Z230. I appreciate any insight. What a wonderful rifle!


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    Hello & welcome. It rather sounds like you have a matching No4 sniper rifle made by BSA in Englandicon in 1944. I think you'll find it is a No4 Mk1 T, not Mk2, as the No4 Mk2 rifle did not appear until just after WW2. The two different numbers that you have noted are just as it should be. The scope serial number of 11138 & markings indicate that it was made by the Houghton Butcher Manufacturing Company & its number would be expected to be on the butt just behind the cocking piece at the back of the bolt. The other number that you have found, D35598 is the serial number of the rifle, so it is good that the bolt & the receiver bear the same number & match up. The rifle serial number was also stamped on the scope bracket (it is made from cast malleable iron) as you note. This was done so that if the scope & bracket were removed from the rifle, they could readily be mated up again. Although all scope brackets & all body pads (rifle mount bases) look the same, they were all carefully factory mated to each other for optimal accuracy, hence the importance of not mixing up scopes & brackets on the wrong rifles. The only other minor thing I would query is that you mention the numbers on the rings as being Z228 & Z230. They were always numbered consecutively (rear ring lower number & front ring higher number), so I would expect either Z228 & Z229, or Z229 & Z230. It might just be worth double checking that. Incidentally, I suspect your scope bracket will probably also bear 'N92' near the front, indicating that it was made at the Dalgleish iron foundry in Glasgow in Scotland. Again, the numbering of the rings was done to ensure they stayed together & didn't end up the wrong way round, or even fitted to another bracket in error.

    We might be able to give you more info if you can manage a few photo's.

    Hope this helps you a little.
    Last edited by Roger Payne; 05-11-2020 at 07:57 PM. Reason: typo

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    Contributing Member Atticus Thraxx's Avatar
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    Thanks Roger, great information. As to the points you brought up, take a look at the bolt. Has MKII stamped on it? Or does that have some other meaning? Bore is pretty dang clean considering. A lot of sloppy tool marks though. I think someone tried to varnish some of the wood. If I can get it bore-sighted and figure out that scope, I'll post pictures of the groups, good or bad. Need to fire-form some brass, this is going to be fun coming up with recipes for. Any bullet/powder combinations you guys are favoring for these?
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    Contributing Member 303 Gunner's Avatar
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    Hi Atticus,

    Congratulations on a lovely matching (T)! So, the N67 Mk II indicates that part was made by the Singer Manufacturing Company (N67 dispersal code) and that it is the second (Mk II) version of the striker. The Mk I was a round knob. Hope that helps! Also, I can't quite tell from my screen, but is there a screw/bolt that runs through the fore-end just ahead of the magazine well?

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    Contributing Member Atticus Thraxx's Avatar
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    Thanks, I hope it shoots better than I do. Yes it has the screw.
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    Really Senior Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    I think you will find that your scope bracket numbers are correct and are actually Z22 and Z23 (the other small mark which I think you are including in the number looks like it may be a 'letter')


    For example mine are marked 719 T and 720 T (with a space between the number and the letter)
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    Last edited by Alan de Enfield; 05-12-2020 at 03:05 AM.
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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    I suggest that Atticus Thrace examine the serial numbers on the body socket and bolt handle. If looks to me as if the last digit is a 6 not an 8, thus D35596.

    M47C was the 1944-1945 wartime code for Birmingham Small Arms (BSA)’s factory at Shirley Englandicon .

    The ENGLAND mark was a requirement of US law with the McKinley Tariff Act requiring the country of origin to be shown. This was stamped on when they were surplus.

    The scope clamps appear to be numbered Z229 rear pair and Z230 for the front pair. The “9” stamp is an odd shape I do admit.

    There should be:
    - a “T” on flat left side of the body.
    - “S51” on the underside of the butt.
    - “S” on the right side of body on the small flat area below the bolt head.
    - 35596 should be stamped into the underside of the fore-end, probably lengthwise.
    - The scope bracket should have the rifle serial number on the left side above the rear mounting screw knob. The D may be above or to the left of the number 35596
    - The magazine may or may not have the rifle serial number on its bottom.

    My web site has some information on these No.4 Mk.I (T) rifles.

    Lee-Enfield No. 4 MK. I (T) sniper rifle www.captainstevens.com

    As well Milsurp.com has some overall excellent detailed photo studies of many firearms including the No.4 Mk.I (T) under “Knowledge Libraryicon” left end of menu bar at top of the page. This is not always visible if on a smartphone.
    https://www.milsurps.com/content.php...united-kingdom
    Last edited by Seaforth72; 05-12-2020 at 03:32 AM.

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    Atticus, it is Z229 & Z230. The digits are often poorly stamped as they were all done in a hurry! You have a lovely (& quite valuable) rifle. Can we please have a view of the scope bracket showing the opposite side to the cradle clamp serial numbers? Curious to get a good look at it, although it all looks ok so far. Just personal curiosity.
    Last edited by Roger Payne; 05-12-2020 at 06:55 AM.

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    Contributing Member Atticus Thraxx's Avatar
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    Thanks one and all. Seaforth you are correct it's a 6. Most of the other markings you mentioned exist. But I need to go over it again. I'll run home at lunch and get that scope bracket picture Roger. It's funny, I read a few articles online and talk to a few people and I think I have a good idea what I'm dealing with. But you guys are sick with knowledge. The level of detail is incredible. I'll grab my credit card and become a contributing member too. Because the next one I pull out of the safe is the Gewehr-43, and I know nothing of those and access to knowledge like this feels weird without earning it or compensating. Have a great day everyone.

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    Contributing Member Atticus Thraxx's Avatar
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    I see mention of it's potential value, but I want this to be a shooter. Any reason normal, light use would impact it's value?

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