USMC M1 Carbines in the Pacific

[Wineman]

Frank, glad to see that your 10 years of 2020 like misery have paid off and you can look at this and laugh. How you get all this great Carbine lore is beyond me. I have enjoyed every post and thanks for the support.

Dave

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[imntxs554]

Frank, glad to see that your 10 years of 2020 like misery have paid off and you can look at this and laugh. How you get all this great Carbine lore is beyond me. I have enjoyed every post and thanks for the support.

Dave

Thank You Dave it's Great to hear from you. I just use different search engines not the norm like Google and Yahoo and when I was taking care of my Sister for a long while before we lost her I spent many, many sleepless nights searching in sites and just dig away. I have something for you email me when you have some time.

[imarangemaster]

My dad and uncles all fought in WW2. The uncles lived in a small farm town in Southern Illinois, and all shot guns regularly. My dad grew up in Chicago, and even he had handled guns and shot before the war. (He really liked a WW1 Luger he shot before the war).

The US was different 70-80 years ago. At that time, a majority of the population still lived in rural areas and small towns, not in large urban areas. Urban growth and the explosion of suburbs did not explode until post WW2 (1950 to 1960)

[lemaymiami]

An outstanding review of the actual history involved.... Thanks Painter....

I'm the kind of guy who reviews incoming assertions then simply disregards stuff I doubt is true... All of us ought to speak up when nonsense comes down the road.

[firstflabn]

Would be nice to have something resembling a source to support such a detailed series of claims. Where did the numbers come from?

[painter777]

Would be nice to have something resembling a source to support such a detailed series of claims. Where did the numbers come from?

Hello Firstflabn,
I assume you're directing this question to me.
I thought about you while putting this together and wishing I had your research abilities.

For the population and households I used the US Census report of 1940 and added the yearly estimated growth to when we entered WWII. The 1940 Census released in April 1 1940 was resident population of the United States to be 132,164,569. By 1942 counting immigrants rounded out to be near ~140,000,000. But the charts varied between 135 mil - 139 mil and I didn't attempt to calculate their + or - %.
1940 United States Census - Wikipedia.

For number of arms I used just a simple search pulling info posted that had no links to 'Hard numbers'.
I tried to use an average from a few of these reports. Most I pulled from this link:
Gun Ownership In The 1940s Alley

For the breakdown of US Service men and Women I used the numbers posted by The National WWII Museum (New Orleans)
Research Starters: US Military by the Numbers | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

You can easily find the start of the DCM, NRA and 1st Summer Olympic Games with a google search.

The Hunting licenses and fees came from the DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE report for the 1941-42 season.
https://www.fws.gov/news/Historic/Ne.../19430731b.pdf

"By far, most of the U.S. troopies had never seen a real firearm before being in the military. The idea of the U.S. being a "nation of riflemen" is a myth."

I believe the fact that over 8,5 million purchased Deer hunting licenses and over 1,4 million purchased Duck stamps for the 41-42 season is in itself enough proof that the above statement is false. Those that 'Purchased', I assume most know that poachers don't buy a license.

I also didn't attempt to pull numbers from the Firearms ordered thru mail order catalogs. Just too hard to find let alone tally.

Ch-P777

[firstflabn]

Hello Firstflabn,
I assume you're directing this question to me.
I thought about you while putting this together and wishing I had your research abilities.

Thanks, Charlie. I was all ready to pounce if you said Wikipedia.

Your total number of firearms looked suspect, so I poked around and found this estimate by Gary Kleck. With Kleck's reputation, I would take his numbers over anybody in the country, especially "some guy" on the internet.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/how-many-guns-are-there-in-america/"]How Many Guns Are There in America? - The Truth About Guns[/url]

Tactically, I would suggest the combination of previous firearms experience plus stateside training - both concentrating on firing at identified individual targets - was a net negative in WWII. The reports are legion about the lack of area firing (and that's with leaving out fraudster SLA Marshall).

The Army gathered enormous amounts of data during WWII, but I've not run across any attempt to compare prewar firearms experience with effectiveness.

The rifle company had the dirtiest of dirty jobs, but it wasn't the whole war. Riflemen took the highest losses, but were only about one third of a rifle company, less than one fourth of an infantry battalion. A Dec 44 12th Army Group report indicates around 10% of that force of 800k was composed of Riflemen.

[painter777]

To Add:
Numbers seems to vary.
But if 16 - 18 million served from the US in WWII,
Then figure in the % of the 8.5 million deer hunters and 1,4 million duck hunters from 1 season.

[Daan Kemp]

Possibly most of the duck hunters are also deer hunters?

[painter777]

Possibly most of the duck hunters are also deer hunters?

Hi Daan,
Perhaps.

Point I was trying to make is there were 8,5 million (licensed) US Deer hunters just during the 41-42 season.
Near 50% of the estimated total of 16 - 18 million (includes Women) that served in the US WWII effort.

If one could put the numbers together that accounted for anyone using arms in the 40's like large and small game hunters, subsistence hunters, competition-pleasure shooters, law enforcement (Federal, State, County, local), personal defense, and criminals.
I believe the total would surpass the number of Servicemen enough to make that statement about "most of the U.S. troopies had never seen a real firearm before being in the military" Just another ridiculous statement.

FWIW