+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: COLT 1917 Need information about THIRD Serial Number

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Member gsthreeeight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last On
    11-20-2020 @ 08:12 PM
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    21
    Local Date
    11-27-2020
    Local Time
    11:25 AM

    COLT 1917 Need information about THIRD Serial Number

    I have a Colt 1917 with three sets of serial numbers.
    The Colt SN is on the frame inside the crane, on the crane itself and inside the side plate.
    The U.S. Army No. is on the bottom the grip frame.
    There is also a third, four digit number under the barrel by the "UNITED STATES PROPERTY", on the frame and crane adjacent to the Colt serial number AND, on the cylinder UNDER the extractor.

    I have found a reference to an overhaul or refurb number that may have been applied during service or repair and the images showed a number with an identical number "1" to mine.

    Does anyone have any information regarding this third number?
    Also this revolver has an Ordnance stamp on the upper right side of the frame. Was this common and does it have any particular significance?

    GS38




  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire Family owned and operated since 1962, Simpson LTD is the largest collector firearms store in the Midwest. Our globally sourced inventory represents many eras, with an emphasis on World War II and our favorite firearm, the Luger, of which we typically have 2,500 in stock.  Inventory changes daily with 10,000 firearms ready to ship; along with accessories, militaria, and hundreds of book titles. We also offer appraisals, consignment services ranging from single items to full collections, and we are one of the most reliable and competitively priced import and export services available.  We do not offer parts or gunsmithing, but we have a little bit of everything else. Visit our website for more information and our new technical video series Speaking Luger, and like Simpson Ltd on Facebook for updates, previews, and more. LIMITED TIME OFFER FROM THE AMERICAN GUNSMITHING INSTITUTE: Get Immediate Online Access To AGI's NEW Armorer's Course for Glock Pistols, Covering Every Generation of Glocks, Including the Latest Model 42/43 and Double Stack Pistols for ONLY $7.00! Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Chuck in Denver ... Buy-Sell-Trade .. Guns, Cars Motorcycles Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses. Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire
     

  3. #2
    Contributing Member rcathey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Last On
    Today @ 09:56 AM
    Location
    St. Louis, MO Area
    Posts
    1,383
    Local Date
    11-27-2020
    Local Time
    01:25 PM
    I do not believe the number on the butt is original.
    Wartime or no, these Colts has better quality control than stamp the numbers all misaligned like that.

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Advisory Panel Brian Dick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Last On
    11-22-2020 @ 03:00 PM
    Location
    Edgefield, SC USA
    Posts
    3,736
    Local Date
    11-27-2020
    Local Time
    12:25 PM
    If memory serves, the numbers you're referring to are assembly numbers. You'll find them on the fitted original component parts. It's not a serial number.

  6. #4
    Member gsthreeeight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last On
    11-20-2020 @ 08:12 PM
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    21
    Local Date
    11-27-2020
    Local Time
    11:25 AM
    Thread Starter
    BD,

    Thanks for the reply. I don't recall ever seeing a number stamped along side the "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" stamp under the barrel. Have you? And haven't ever noticed that tiny Ordnance stamp before, either.

    GS38

  7. #5
    Really Senior Member martin08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 08:56 PM
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    220
    Local Date
    11-27-2020
    Local Time
    12:25 PM
    217,337 is the sequential Colt New Service serial number (S&W used assembly numbers)
    68,462 is the US Army inventory Number (looks original to me)
    1346 is post-production. Most likely at refurbishment/re-inspection

  8. Thank You to martin08 For This Useful Post:


  9. #6
    Really Senior Member martin08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 08:56 PM
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    220
    Local Date
    11-27-2020
    Local Time
    12:25 PM
    Post-WWI Rebuild/Refinish

    The technical term for 'rebuild' is Arsenal Overhaul, but very few collectors use this term. So for ease of reading and deferring to common collector jargon, 'rebuild' will be used.

    Following WWI, thousands of M1917s (S&W and Colt) were returned to Springfield Armory. Some were simply polished and refinished, retaining original parts. Others were fitted with new replacement and/or refurbished parts. In most cases, no outwardly visible markings were used to indicate rebuild.

    For purposes of maintaining hand fitted part assembly, Springfield stamped numbers up to five digits and sometimes accompanied by an R or S, in up to six places, and with a larger font than original serial or soft assembly numbers as follows:

    - Underside rear barrel flat
    - Inside yoke arm
    - In yoke cut
    - Rear of cylinder under ejector star
    - On hammer and trigger under sideplate
    - On internal ejector rod

    The Springfield rebuilds were sometimes polished, eliminating or diminishing inspection and acceptance marks on left frame, and softening of sharp edges and/or sideplate fitting. Domed pin and bolt heads exhibit flattening. A dark blue to near black finish was applied to all parts, including the hammer and trigger.

  10. #7
    Really Senior Member martin08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 08:56 PM
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    220
    Local Date
    11-27-2020
    Local Time
    12:25 PM
    Would like to see full pictures.

  11. #8
    Member gsthreeeight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last On
    11-20-2020 @ 08:12 PM
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    21
    Local Date
    11-27-2020
    Local Time
    11:25 AM
    Thread Starter
    martin08,

    THANK YOU for your post and information.
    Here are additional images.

    GS38
    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	003.jpg‎
Views:	36
Size:	1.45 MB
ID:	111968   Click image for larger version

Name:	002.jpg‎
Views:	32
Size:	2.43 MB
ID:	111967   Click image for larger version

Name:	001.jpg‎
Views:	32
Size:	2.22 MB
ID:	111966   Click image for larger version

Name:	004.jpg‎
Views:	29
Size:	1.23 MB
ID:	111969   Click image for larger version

Name:	005.jpg‎
Views:	30
Size:	1.09 MB
ID:	111970   Click image for larger version

Name:	006.jpg‎
Views:	29
Size:	1.08 MB
ID:	111971   Click image for larger version

Name:	014.jpg‎
Views:	28
Size:	1.50 MB
ID:	111972  

    Click image for larger version

Name:	015.jpg‎
Views:	27
Size:	1.75 MB
ID:	111973   Click image for larger version

Name:	015a.jpg‎
Views:	26
Size:	1.51 MB
ID:	111974  

  12. #9
    Really Senior Member martin08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 08:56 PM
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    220
    Local Date
    11-27-2020
    Local Time
    12:25 PM
    Your Colt would originally have been "Brushed Blue" finish, with well defined wheel marks and a deep luster hue. While your gun still shows some of the brushed pattern, it is subdued from light buffing, and the metal finish is rather flat black. I would say that the barrel received the most buffing attention, as some of the stamps are rather diminished, and the directional striations around the front sight are all but gone.

    The sideplate also had some more aggressive attention, as the Rampant Colt is all but gone.

    My guess is that the ordnance wheel on the right side was not added until inspection or acceptance for WWII service.

    My best evaluation would say that yours is a Springfield Armory arsenal overhaul, from circa 1920. And it did not get a wholesale rebuild. Parts look like they are original. Just touched up, and nicely done.

    Here is late 1918 build, just a month before the Armistice. It didn't see much, if any action. And is a good example of the brushed blue finish for comparison to yours.

















    Last edited by martin08; 10-30-2020 at 10:16 AM.

  13. Thank You to martin08 For This Useful Post:


  14. #10
    Member gsthreeeight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last On
    11-20-2020 @ 08:12 PM
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    21
    Local Date
    11-27-2020
    Local Time
    11:25 AM
    Thread Starter
    martin08,

    Thank you very much for your evaluation and explanations.
    Regarding the date of manufacture, I could only narrow it down to 1918-1919 from online sources. I notice your October 1918 example has a serial number that is apparently after mine.
    Do you have any sources that could provide a more accurate date of manufacture for 217337 other than a Colt letter?

    Thanks again,
    GS38

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Winchester Model 1917 with very early unique serial number
    By breakeyp in forum Pattern 1913/1914 and M1917 Rifles
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 03-07-2018, 04:10 PM
  2. Remington M1917 Serial Number (High serial number)
    By roadking in forum Pattern 1913/1914 and M1917 Rifles
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 03-30-2017, 01:23 AM
  3. X prefix serial number WWI Colt Frame
    By Leggett71 in forum 1911/1911A1 Service Pistol
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-27-2014, 07:53 PM
  4. 1918 Colt 1911 "C" serial number
    By T squared in forum 1911/1911A1 Service Pistol
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-18-2012, 07:25 PM
  5. Help Identifying a Colt 1911 with X- serial number
    By 8kidz in forum 1911/1911A1 Service Pistol
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-12-2011, 10:42 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts