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Thread: Krag Rifle Identification Help

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  1. #11
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Actually we've seen lots around here that have been done up...
    Regards, Jim

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  3. #12
    Really Senior Member butlersrangers's Avatar
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    Arrow

    'polandaj' - A clear well focused picture of your front-sight and muzzle crown area would tell a lot about your barrel's origin.

    There were almost 30 manufacturing operations or steps in the making of a U.S. Kragicon barrel.

    The 15th operation was the machining of a dovetail and the bronze brazing of a 'lug' that would eventually become the front-sight base.

    This 'lug' was a manufacturing reference point and helped position the unfinished Krag barrel for rifling, outside-contouring, rear-sight hole positioning, and barrel-thread timing.

    At first glance, a Krag front-sight base appears 'at one' with the barrel steel. On close examination, a faint bronze colored seam can be seen.
    Springfield Armory did a fine job with the Krag front sights and this discrete bronze 'outline' is often hidden by oxidation, patina, and crud.

    The original muzzle-crown contour of Krag carbine and rifle barrels is seldom duplicated on cut-down barrels.

    Krag carbine barrels are exactly 22 inches long, when measured from the muzzle to the (closed) Bolt-Face with a cleaning rod.

    There was a time when lots of spare Krag parts were available on the civilian market. Dealers and hobbyists could put together rather convincing 'parts carbines'. This may have been done just to provide a useful gun for hunting, shooting, or display.

    Of course, there have always been fakers who assembled bogus carbines for profit!

    Springfield Armory did not put 1896 rifle sights on carbines or cut down rifle barrels to make model 1896 carbines.

    Attached photos with arrows to show front-base seam.


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    Member polandaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butlersrangers View Post
    A clear well focused picture of your front-sight and muzzle crown area would tell a lot about your barrel's origin.
    Snapped some photos that hopefully help. There is a curvature to the barrel crown, making the crown it slightly recessed. I measured the barrel with the cleaning rod against the bolt face (with bolt closed as you suggested) and it's right on 22". If it's off, it's off by less than 1/32".

    There are also what look like some tool marks on the barrel under the handguard - perhaps a sign of a person that installed a new barrel but "bit" into the metal while doing so, or didn't care if they marred it up since it's covered.


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    Really Senior Member butlersrangers's Avatar
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    'polandaj' - Your front-sight base and barrel 'crown' look good to me. I think you have an original carbine barrel.
    (The front blade appears to be a rifle blade).

    I think you are correct; someone used a pipe-wrench, to assemble a carbine barrel on a rifle receiver.

    I see a 'parts gun' that has some good carbine parts on it. Thanks for sharing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by butlersrangers View Post
    'polandaj' - Your Kragicon, #187XX, is a U.S. model 1892, that was assembled around July or August, 1895.

    With the model 1901 rear-sight & hand-guard and 'hold-open' pin on the extractor, it likely that it was up-dated, later, to more of a model 1896 configuration.
    (It is likely your receiver was later 'notched' for the hold-open pin on your extractor. IIRC - This alteration was done to early receivers in 1897 and 1902).
    The rest of the thread made me go back and check the 1892 sporter again. The 1901 pattern rear sight has the "C" mark on the base and the leaf is graduated to 2000 yds. I'm guessing the person that commissioned the work or gunsmith that decided to modify this rifle was able to obtain a carbine sight to match the 22" barrel modification. You can also see where wood was added to fill in where the cleaning rod channel would have been exposed by the tapering down of the stock. Filled in very well.


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  11. #16
    Really Senior Member butlersrangers's Avatar
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    'polandaj' - Your m-1901 sight is a 'mixmaster'.

    The leaf for the 1901 carbine sight goes to '23' (for 2,300 yards) and the 'slide' does not shift to the 'left', as you move it up the leaf.

    The m-1901 rifle leaf only goes to '20' and has the built in correction for 'bullet drift'.

    (The Kragicon carbines were not showing the same bullet deviation and drift issues as the full length rifles so there was no drift compensation built into the leaf).

    You have a 1901 carbine sight 'lower base' and a 1901 rifle 'upper base'. It doesn't really matter on your nice sporter.

    The wood patch in the 'cleaning-rod' groove of your stock was done at Springfield Armory. This was part of the updates done around 1897 and 1902 to make model 1892 Krags into a model 1896 configuration.

    Your Krags tell some interesting stories!

    Attached - 1901 rifle (bottom) and carbine (top) leaf & slides compared.



    Last edited by butlersrangers; 11-02-2020 at 12:10 AM.

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