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  1. #11
    Member dcollector's Avatar
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    I would say save your cash and buy a book on FS instead.

    It really is not (*usually) difficult to spot copies or fakes, if in doubt, simply post pictures of the one you have found on the myriad of FB collecting groups, commando knifes, FPM, Fairbairn Sykes etc., before you spend a penny.

    *When you get into the Nail Spike handle, or very rare FS variations, some costing $4000-$5000, the fakery is museum quality, but you're talking 3rd patterns and other than idiots stamping 1942, cross of Lorraine signs, and other stupid obviously spurious stampings you're fairly safe.
    I also collect trench knives and US fighting knives and these are starting to become a minefield of fakery.


    The Indian one on WWA is a horrible copy of something that never existed, a fat-boy grip with wonky etch - its not military issue anywhere, it's a recently made fake to deceive novice collectors.

    The 1975 NATO marked is Ok, but it's a govt. contract version of the cheapest and worst variation of the post war style of FS.
    Stamped guard, machine ground blade, unnumbered hilt.
    Fairbairn didn't like the WW2 3rd pattern variation, he would have hated the post war 3rd pattern.

    Buy a book, read-up, the way that the FS knife was developed is an interesting and historical story. Then go to Ebay US, or any of the collectors sources (first pattern militaria, Ivan Gamsby) and just wait and watch patiently.

    I don't think I have spent over $200 on an original WW2 3rd ever, I keep meaning to stop buying them, as I have enough, but they keep coming up in auction.
    Usually seller spells the name wrong, mis-titles it, doesn't know what it is.
    They make good trades when making deals on rarer knives.
    I once traded 10 X 3rd pattern knives for a 1st pattern.
    We were both very happy.

    Anyway - the above is my opinion, I do not know you, or what your collection is like and can only project myself into the situation you describe, so I sincerely apologize if I have offended or talked out of turn.
    My grammar sometimes rubs people the wrong way until they know I mean it all for the best.

    When I stopped buying anything that caught my eye and invested in reference books my collection changed profoundly.

    Two First Pattern Fairbairn Sykes flank an original 1918 LF&C Trench Knife.
    The 1918 still shows it's original blackening on the blade and brass.

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  3. #12
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcollector View Post
    an original 1918 LF&C Trench Knife.
    The 1918 still shows it's original blackening on the blade and brass.
    Unusual. Normally they're rubbed raw.
    Regards, Jim

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    Really Senior Member Aragorn243's Avatar
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    I'm not really a typical collector, I never settled on any one thing. Started out collecting bayonets because I could afford them. Then as the kids grew up and moved out I started collecting the rifles that went with the bayonets. As I ran out of rifles and bayonets I could afford, I started buying gear, specializing in canteens and mess kits first but getting odds and ends of other things that I run across. Now I'm buying pistols when I can find them which isn't often. Through all this I've picked up a few knives, a few swords, tents, cavalry items, rucksacks, etc.

    On these knives, I only really want one and would like it to be WWII but I never see them that cheap.

    I started doing presentations about 7 years ago just for the "fun" of it. They are free and usually at various churches so I don't make any money off them. I just enjoy doing it.

    I understand the book buying and I have bought a lot of books on rifles and bayonets over the years but I have a much larger interest in them. I just ordered "Crown Jewels, Swedishicon Mausers" this evening. In fact I usually thoroughly research every firearm and bayonet I buy before doing so. I've tried with these knives using online sources but even they are so vague I just don't have the comfort level to make the deal. I've brought a couple to the attention of the experts here that looked decent to me but there were quickly deemed fake by those here so I am very wary. I have a hard time justifying the purchase of a book that will likely cost half what the knife does when I'm only after one. This is something that will go on my WWII Britishicon display table when I do the presentation. I think they are very nice and important enough to have one of but that's all I'm after. I have the same dilemma with NAZI knives, don't know enough about them to buy one on the spot unless it's cheap and that never happens but I'd love to have one for my display. I pretty much steer clear of anything that has a high fakery rate.

    I probably have over 300 bayonets, 115 rifles, 15 handguns, 20 knives, 2 swords, 20 canteens, 10 mess kits and several boxes full of misc gear. My preferred area is Post US Civil War to Korea but I have one Civil War pistol and as I'm a Desert Storm vet I decided I should have some of my things too but I don't do presentations outside of WWI and WWII. Not yet anyway.

    I appreciate the advice and take no offense at all. If I found a WWII knife for less than $200 and was sure it was legit, I would buy it. I just can't seem to find one.

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    Really Senior Member Aragorn243's Avatar
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    I located a book that was reasonable and highly rated which should suit me well, lots of color photos. Schiffler published. got it for $7.00 so I can't complain. I did a bunch of facebook surveys that gave me a lot of points.

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    Member dcollector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aragorn243 View Post
    I located a book that was reasonable and highly rated which should suit me well, lots of color photos. Schiffler published. got it for $7.00 so I can't complain. I did a bunch of facebook surveys that gave me a lot of points.
    Great stuff! The Schiffler book is a great place to start - use mine for reference all the time.

    ---------- Post added at 12:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by browningautorifleicon View Post
    Unusual. Normally they're rubbed raw.
    Not really unusual actually - lots out there still retain the black.

    This is a good page to follow if you're on FB -
    Lots and lots of 1918's still retain good portions of their original "black" on the blade or brass.
    Often in a lot better shape than mine, which is really pretty crusty.
    The replicas on the other hand are ALL polished brass with silver blades.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/215481023138895

  8. #16
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcollector View Post
    lots out there still retain the black.
    Never have I seen even one until yours. We don't get to see many anyway here.
    Regards, Jim

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    Member dcollector's Avatar
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    Aye, until I started collecting them, they did seem like rarities of course, but they're out there.
    Check out Greg Aloisio's collection on that FB page - he wrote a book on the 1918 which is an incredible reference guide.
    https://rdgunbooks.com/shop/ols/prod...ed-300-printed

    Blades can be refinished, though cold blue has a distinctive smell, that sometimes gives away a refurb.
    The chemical process they used to black the brass is trickier to fake - these are all $1000+ knives now, so I am sure someone somewhere has worked out how to effectively fake a WW1 finish and age it.



    Tastes, priorities and values change, over the decades and even centuries now.
    My 1918 in the photo had it's original scabbard, which was awful BTW, replaced for a handmade leather scabbard, somewhere a long time ago, the leather is MUCH more practical, but man, I'd love an original for it, lol.



  10. #18
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    We had one of those raider stilettoes here a while back, one of few I've had in hand. It wasn't bad condition, the handle was still OK.
    Regards, Jim

  11. #19
    Member dcollector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by browningautorifleicon View Post
    We had one of those raider stilettoes here a while back, one of few I've had in hand. It wasn't bad condition, the handle was still OK.
    The USMC raider is not much of a knife now, age has made it so delicate. But, they have some good Pacific theater history to them, good for the fighting knife collection, mine is salty, but that's the only way I can afford most of them - lol

    My favorite of those few above, for the history and the hold and balance and quality will always be the John Ek Commando.

    On the subject of "salty" examples - The OP can find FS for cheaper than $200 there are three on Ebay now, but they will require TLC, and you'll have to add a reproduction sheath - for me this is still better than a post war knife. But, collectors have different priorities.

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    Contributing Member Flying10uk's Avatar
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    You pays your money and makes your choice. The problem is that some people want something for next to nothing.

    I didn't pay much for my unissued examples of 3rd Pattern F/S knives, one with a NSN and the other a modern example made by a Sheffield knife maker who made 3rd Pattern types during WW2.

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