Cleaning up Somme ground-dug 303 Great War SAA.

[Ovidio]

You have a lot of faith...
But we all do, ain’t we?

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[Roger Payne]

Alan, in fact I specifically ran my proposal to work my way through all this battlefield SAA & gradually 'pull' it all with my FEO at my last RFD renewal. He was quite ok with that.........& being realistic, it's not safe to shoot so what else is there to do with it other than destroy it? I shall keep a nice selection & probably part with the remainder, once it is all safe & cleaned up..... There are some interesting rounds in among them, including some 1917 dated air service ball & tracer that were recovered from the site of an old RFC airfield.....

[Surpmil]

I have long thought it would be an interesting exercise to analyse a comprehensive selection of WWI cases with an xray spectrometer to determine exactly what their alloys were.

It would be interesting to know if such analysis would confirm the observations made by those who were there that certain brands of ammo were notorious for jamming etc.

The extent to which such problems were caused by improper annealing etc. after manufacture would be harder to determine of course.

[browningautorifle]

certain brands of ammo were notorious for jamming etc.

I thought it was because some ammo wasn't so close to spec? Tolerance...

[Alan de Enfield]

I thought it was because some ammo wasn't so close to spec? Tolerance...

Certainly in WW2 Winchester ammunition was banned from use in aircraft due to their inability to manufacture to the specified dimensions resulting in jams - not easy to clear when you are in the cockpit and the guns out on the wing.


Regulations For Army Ordnance Services
Part 7, Pamphlet No. 11
Small Arms Ammunition
(The War Office 24th February 1945)

7) .303-in. Winchester
No Winchester .303-in. ammunition is considered suitable for use in aircraft although Red Label ammunition from Lot 45 of 1941 onwards may be used in emergency. Packages containing this ammunition should bear the restrictive marking “NOT FOR USE IN AIRCRAFT”, though it is known that some has come forward without this marking. The ammunition is fit for normal ground use unless it bears an additional restrictive marking.
Lots of Winchester .303-in manufactured before Lot 45 of 1941 should be stencilled “FOR PRACTICE IN RIFLES ONLY”.

[Roger Payne]

Funny you should say that.......it is only anecdotal of course, & could be influenced by a number of variables, but from handling thousands of these dug up rounds over the years, I have noticed a few things that generally hold true.

Specifically; that the brass of some manufacturers stands the 'pulling' procedure better than others. Presumably some brass has become more brittle than other, & becomes more prone to neck splits. Secondly, as a general rule, pre-1917 brass seems to be of better quality than 17/18 dated brass, though perhaps this is not surprising. The brass of US contract ammo is particularly prone to neck splits. Most of the US rounds I have found or acquired have had split necks even before I put them in a kinetic puller.

I realise that there are many factors that could influence these observations; original alloy composition, original heat treatment, ground conditions, exposure to potentially corrosive fertilisers, & so on, but they seem to hold more or less true from what I've seen.

[Micheal Doyne]

The brass of US contract ammo is particularly prone to neck splits.

Sounds like S&B has been continuing a cultural heritage....

[Mk VII]

The History of the Ministry of Munitions remarks that a large quantity of ammunition was sent back for salvage, and it was clear that once the packaging had been opened and the contents observed to be of American origin, it had been discarded without any attempt made to use it.

[Daan Kemp]

Might be because the Americans hadn't the experience of the Brits of many years manufacture for these adverse conditions. I think the Brits pretty much knew precisely what cartridge 'components' worked in continued large scale battle.

[Roger Payne]

Yes, I agree. I do mine in the garage & I periodically open the door, although it's pretty draughty in there anyway! On occasions I have bead blasted the rust off a partially used up anode. It 'refreshes' it by taking it back to bare metal.

Cleaned up a nice round with the Government Cartridge Factory No3 headstamp earlier. Not exceptionally rare, but a little less common than Kynoch, Greenwood & Batley & so on. 1917 dated & probably a Hindenburg Line find. I gather the site of Factory No3 was resurrected in WW2 to become the Blackpole ammunition factory.

Following on from earlier comments, Kynoch cases are also rather prone to neck splits, although both Kings Norton & Rudge Whitworth seem to have produced (or sourced) excellent quality brass. Only anecdotal I know..........

With two thousand rounds of dug up ammo & my electrolysis kit set up, those long winter's nights are simply flying by! (Apologies to Captain Edmund Blackadder).