+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: ConD II* to .22 Short Rifle Mk III to .22 SR Mk IV* Barrel match ?

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Senior Member tatou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:40 PM
    Posts
    134
    Local Date
    01-23-2021
    Local Time
    09:30 PM

    ConD II* to .22 Short Rifle Mk III to .22 SR Mk IV* Barrel match ?

    I just got this interesting rifle but the barrel serial number is not matching.
    The rifle is a (the way i make it out) ConD II* converted to a .22 Short Rifle Mk III converted to a .22 Short Rifle Mk IV*
    Just like a No2 Mk IV* should be, it has a Mk III style barrel with Mk III rear sight.
    The rifle and barrel both have New Zealandicon ownership markings (matching fonts)
    However the serial number on the barrel doesn't match the rest of the rifle.
    Serial numbers that match are on the receiver, the bolt, the nosecap and the forend.
    On a side note, the nosecap is of the Mk III style.

    My question is... is it possible a NZ trainer would have a non matching barrel ?
    The knowledge i have tells me a non matching barrel was probably done post service... but i also learned to never say never with Lee Enfield
    (pics to come)

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Posts
    All Threads
    Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire Family owned and operated since 1962, Simpson LTD is the largest collector firearms store in the Midwest. Our globally sourced inventory represents many eras, with an emphasis on World War II and our favorite firearm, the Luger, of which we typically have 2,500 in stock.  Inventory changes daily with 10,000 firearms ready to ship; along with accessories, militaria, and hundreds of book titles. We also offer appraisals, consignment services ranging from single items to full collections, and we are one of the most reliable and competitively priced import and export services available.  We do not offer parts or gunsmithing, but we have a little bit of everything else. Visit our website for more information and our new technical video series Speaking Luger, and like Simpson Ltd on Facebook for updates, previews, and more. LIMITED TIME OFFER FROM THE AMERICAN GUNSMITHING INSTITUTE: Get Immediate Online Access To AGI's NEW Armorer's Course for Glock Pistols, Covering Every Generation of Glocks, Including the Latest Model 42/43 and Double Stack Pistols for ONLY $7.00! Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Chuck in Denver ... Buy-Sell-Trade .. Guns, Cars Motorcycles Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses. Banner AD Space Available - Click HERE to Inquire
     

  3. #2
    Advisory Panel Lance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Last On
    Today @ 08:54 PM
    Location
    New England, USA
    Posts
    523
    Local Date
    01-23-2021
    Local Time
    09:30 PM
    Just looked at my three examples that are stamped like yours, all have matching barrels. All are NZicon marked two with '22 disc dates with '21 dated barrels, the '24 has a '25 dated barrel so either it was a December gun or was rebarreled again.

  4. Thank You to Lance For This Useful Post:


  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #3
    Senior Member tatou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:40 PM
    Posts
    134
    Local Date
    01-23-2021
    Local Time
    09:30 PM
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    Just looked at my three examples that are stamped like yours, all have matching barrels. All are NZicon marked two with '22 disc dates with '21 dated barrels, the '24 has a '25 dated barrel so either it was a December gun or was rebarreled again.
    Thank you Lance
    That's what i thought...
    Mine is has a '23 barrel... at least it looks consistent with the years the upgrades were made.

    Does any of yours have a Mk III no windage rear sight, butt stock swivel and nose cap ?



  7. #4
    Member tonyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Last On
    Today @ 02:32 PM
    Location
    nz
    Posts
    40
    Local Date
    01-23-2021
    Local Time
    09:30 PM
    Oh I want!!!

  8. Thank You to tonyd For This Useful Post:


  9. #5
    Advisory Panel Lance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Last On
    Today @ 08:54 PM
    Location
    New England, USA
    Posts
    523
    Local Date
    01-23-2021
    Local Time
    09:30 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tatou View Post
    Thank you Lance
    That's what i thought...
    Mine is has a '23 barrel... at least it looks consistent with the years the upgrades were made.

    Does any of yours have a Mk III no windage rear sight, butt stock swivel and nose cap ?
    Attachment 114155Attachment 114156
    Attachment 114157Attachment 114158
    Attachment 114160Attachment 114159
    First, my mistake, all are 1922 dated, the 1924 I mentioned earlier is my NZicon SMLE Mk III conversion to .22. The 5/22 rifle pictured is the one with the 1925 barrel, matching. All three were .22 Short Mark III that were upgraded to .22 Short Mark IV* with the change in nomenclature (event though besides the "IV*" they are still in factory Mark III form). All are different obviously, love my early .22's. In fact just purchased a new to me .22 Short Mk IV*, coming soon.

    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC04001.JPG‎
Views:	30
Size:	1.47 MB
ID:	114189   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC04002.JPG‎
Views:	27
Size:	761.1 KB
ID:	114190   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC04003.JPG‎
Views:	24
Size:	813.0 KB
ID:	114191   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC04004.JPG‎
Views:	23
Size:	803.0 KB
ID:	114192   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC04005.JPG‎
Views:	22
Size:	807.4 KB
ID:	114193   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC04008.JPG‎
Views:	28
Size:	1.86 MB
ID:	114194   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC04010.JPG‎
Views:	25
Size:	1.14 MB
ID:	114195  


  10. Thank You to Lance For This Useful Post:


  11. #6
    Really Senior Member Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 01:18 PM
    Location
    NZ/Ocean
    Posts
    343
    Local Date
    01-23-2021
    Local Time
    09:30 PM
    Real Name
    Roy
    A spectacular collection of NZicon .22's! I have a NZ Cond .22 though I restored it using MLE wood and MkI nosecap. Do any of these rifles have a NZ census/rack number on the top of the breech ring? all of my .22 have this as well as what used to be matched rack numbers on the bolt. possibly these new numbers were added when the rifles were converted to 'Trentham trainers' in the 60's
    Keep Calm
    and
    Fix Bayonets

  12. Thank You to Roy For This Useful Post:


  13. #7
    Advisory Panel Lance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Last On
    Today @ 08:54 PM
    Location
    New England, USA
    Posts
    523
    Local Date
    01-23-2021
    Local Time
    09:30 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    A spectacular collection of NZicon .22's! I have a NZ Cond .22 though I restored it using MLE wood and MkI nosecap. Do any of these rifles have a NZ census/rack number on the top of the breech ring? all of my .22 have this as well as what used to be matched rack numbers on the bolt. possibly these new numbers were added when the rifles were converted to 'Trentham trainers' in the 60's
    One has the marking disc rack number repeated on the breech ring, one is blank and the third has this unit(?) number.
    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC04012.jpg‎
Views:	25
Size:	1.36 MB
ID:	114200  

  14. Thank You to Lance For This Useful Post:


  15. #8
    Senior Member tatou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:40 PM
    Posts
    134
    Local Date
    01-23-2021
    Local Time
    09:30 PM
    Thread Starter
    Very nice collection indeed Lance.
    And thank you for the closeup pics they help a great deal in helping me figuring out what could be wrong with mine.
    I'm pleased to see the nosecaps are of the Mk III model.
    My rear sight is a late style one, without the windage adjustment... i do have a couple of spares so i might just swap it (it's non matching anyway so likely not original... i'll still keep the old one though)
    The butt stock has a repair on the top so i'm guessing it could be the original MLE stock converted when a new butt plate without the thang was fitted.

    Nothing on my breech ring Roy. It's smooth like an old lady's butt (don't ask)...

  16. #9
    Really Senior Member Bindi2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 10:20 PM
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    1,312
    Local Date
    01-24-2021
    Local Time
    10:30 AM
    Hi Guys.
    How ever your NZicon rifles are is more than likely how they left NZ service that is their history. The KIWIS did not have buckets of new parts they would have acquired them as the Brits were going to a newer trainer. Enjoy them as they are they are unique and very collectable in their own right.

  17. Thank You to Bindi2 For This Useful Post:


  18. #10
    Senior Member tatou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 10:40 PM
    Posts
    134
    Local Date
    01-23-2021
    Local Time
    09:30 PM
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Bindi2 View Post
    Hi Guys.
    How ever your NZicon rifles are is more than likely how they left NZ service that is their history. The KIWIS did not have buckets of new parts they would have acquired them as the Brits were going to a newer trainer. Enjoy them as they are they are unique and very collectable in their own right.
    Thanks Bindi2,
    i agree they are very collectable (that's why i purchased it in the first place).
    How ever the more i investigate it and learn about it i'm starting to doubt certain aspects of mine are original to NZ service.
    As much as i hate it.i also wont lie about what i have... it is what it is.

    First issue is the barrel and the fact the serial number isn't matching... i'm willing to entertain the thought there is a possibility the swap was made in NZ service, at a later date (or in cadet used maybe) and they didn't change the serial number.
    Although unusual, it is still possible.

    Second issue concerns the bolt in general... there are several aspects that makes me really wonder.
    The cocking piece is from a cutaway
    The bolt head appears, to me, to have been modified to fit in conjunction with the Parker Hiscock magazine. I have one of those original bolt head on another rifle and this one looks different.
    The inside of the receiver (were the bolt slides) have been sanded.

    Lastly the case of the parker Hiscock magazine.
    I think it might be from a MLE but i haven't look into that yet. More research needs to be done.
    The cuts are also poorly made.

    Like i said i hate to change anything original on a collectable but if i do find out the rifle was tempered with, post service (in other word, restored) that's a whole other thing.
    It is still a collectable and i'm still ok with any of this considering how rare they are and the price i paid.

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. 1899 M96/38 Swedish Short Rifle and 1943 M38 Swedish Short Rifle
    By Badger in forum WTS/WTB/WTT (Want to Sell, Buy or Trade) Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-24-2016, 07:50 AM
  2. Match results...Vinatge semi-auto military rifle silhouette match
    By Calfed in forum Range Reports - Show us how good you are!
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-26-2015, 03:30 AM
  3. SMLE Rifle MkII**Cond Navy
    By Buccaneer in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-24-2015, 02:11 PM
  4. Very Early 1903 Match type rifle with Winchester barrel
    By cplstevennorton in forum M1903/1903A3/A4 Springfield Rifle
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 08-09-2015, 05:00 PM
  5. Short barrel lithgow SMLE
    By superbee in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-06-2014, 07:46 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts