Questionable Lithgow No.1 Mk III*

[Alan de Enfield]

The body (action) IS the rifle in the Commonwealth system. Everything else is replaceable.

Prior to WW1 the 'master component' to which everything else was numbered was the barrel, this was changed and even in the WW1 instructions the 'body' was the master component (see para 18 in the instructions to Armourers for No1 Mk3 rifles)

Information

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[22SqnRAE]

Thanks, Alan, yes that silly idea did take some time to remove from the system.

I suggest it came from muzzle loading days, when the barrel was the body, for better words. The British Army and its traditions are difficult to separate...

As we were focussing on a Lithgow of 1940's vintage, that matter was history and no longer of practice to the Australian Army. Thank heavens...

I think Mr Laidler frequently highlights the point that bodies were not consumable issue.

[Alan de Enfield]

Attachment 114610

I think Mr Laidler frequently highlights the point that bodies were not consumable issue.

Yes, he was adamant that the body was NEVER available as a spare part, even in my 'Parts Lists' the body is shown only available WITH a barrel as a complete assembly.

Ref No2 on the attached list is for the body - there is no Vocab number for the body alone.

Attachment 114612






May 4th 2008

Now, to cater for the vagaries of mass production, the designers cater for two of those points, the bolt and the bolt head. Why not the body then you ask? Once again, I can only sing from the hymn sheet that I know. That’s because in the UK Military, bodies were classed as the ‘MASTER COMPONENT’ and the master component was NEVER available from Ordnance Stores. NEVER, NIX, not EVER, contrary to what your grandma’s uncle Jim who knew a bloke whose friend met someone in the NAAFI at Tidworth might have told him. It was, is and always has been a blocked VAOS number. I know that it’s shown and illustrated in the parts list but just remember this. The parts list is a list of parts and not a list of AVAILABLE parts.

However, Peter did have to back-track a little:

Some weeks / months later Peter did issue an apology having found out that "The Canadians" did allow No4 bodies to be issued as separate parts.

Found it :

But now, it’s time to eat a bit of humble pie to JohnR. I said on a previous thread that what we call ‘the master component’ was NEVER available as a spare part. This was obviously to prevent a budding Armourer making up a rifle out of spare parts. I even related the story of Craftsman ‘Tiny’ Davidson in Malaya who did somehow manage something similar in Malaya with a No2 pistol and being caught with it in his locker by Sgt Doug Baker (later killed with 8-RAR in SVN). Doug told Johnny Cotterill, our Armourer Sergeant later ‘Tiny does 28 days in the can (as we called Holdsworthy Jail) or I lose my pension. It’s simple. Tiny does 28 days'! I have learned that at the big combined RCEME/REME workshops in WERL in Germany, Canadian No4 and Bren bodies were available as replacement parts but only from Canadian Ordnance. This was cut short very quickly but quite clearly, Canadian Ordnance did supply master components and I should imagine, was awash with unlawful weaponry……….. But not in the UK, Australia or New Zealand.

[browningautorifle]

Canadian Ordnance did supply master components and I should imagine, was awash with unlawful weaponry…

Well, I wouldn't want to have been the one caught building a weapon from spares. The jail time would be substantial and career ending. We weren't exactly awash in odd weapons...

I understand that was Peter's quotation, I know he's reading these...here somewhere...