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Thread: No. 4 MK I T Sporter *PICS*

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  1. #21
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    Roger Payne's Avatar
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    Managed to grab a quick look. Of course, as mentioned above, how can we always be certain something wasn't switched over many years ago, especially if carried out by an armourer, or a civvy who knew what he was doing? But, as far as I can judge, none of these, apart from the shiny gunmetal butt plate on the left, has been replaced. Note four of the six are mazakicon, including one on a butt from a 41 Maltby.

    I also checked a few of my rifles that came to hand; a 41 Maltby, a 41 BSA, a couple of 44 BSA's & a 45 BSA. One of the 44's & the 41 BSA bore gunmetal butt plates, but as I fitted them that doesn't tell us much. The other rifles all bear mazak butt plates.

    Having said that, the butt at extreme right shows why there was a tendency to replace them with gunmetal or steel, as the mazak/zamak goes brittle & cracks with age............so in the post war refurbishments there may even have been a deliberate policy of replacing mazak....I don't know, but it would make sense. If Peter is inclined to chip in he may be able to shed some light on the issue.
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  4. #22
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    These Two were in the same rack at one point and bear different butt plates, rack no7 is mine, but still like to get in touch with the person who has rack no5 ? Also worth making a note of the original scope number on the wrist and posting it in the rifles looking for scopes, with the help of a few forum members I managed to mate the original scope to the rifle, although not as straightforward as that and caused a few sleepless nights....

    https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....9&d=1468491851

    https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....0&d=1468505305
    Last edited by bigduke6; 07-24-2021 at 10:57 AM.

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  6. #23
    Really Senior Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Payneicon View Post
    Yes, but how original is 'original'? Peter might not even have considered the butt plate worth mentioning.

    I have a small quantity of original 4T butts in a drawer in the garage. I think some still bear their original (?) butt plates. I'll have a look at the makers for you Alan, if you would like. I had always simply assumed that with the UKicon in full scale wartime production brass/gun metal was by then (say, mid-warish) being conserved for where it was absolutely essential & mazakicon had become almost the norm. Part of the problem is how DO you tell if a butt plate is a replacement, especially if it has been fitted well & a long time ago?

    I don't think there would have been any changing of butt plates at H&H or BSA. I'm sure both facilities had better things to do in the middle of a war. I just suspect that......let's just say 'a significant number' of No4's bore factory fitted mazak butt plates at this time so still bore mazak butt plates when they came out of H&H as finished 4T's.


    Thank you, don't go to any trouble, as I say, you have seen many more 4T than I could dream about, so I'll take your word on them.
    I think I have a Long Branch butt in my box of bits with a Mazak / Zamak plate on so could just swap it over.


    Edit - hadn't noticed the thread had flipped over onto page 3 and you had already looked - many thanks, looks like a job for a rainy day. I'll put it on the list.
    Last edited by Alan de Enfield; 07-24-2021 at 11:49 AM.
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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  8. #24
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
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    Only brass butt plate I have seen on a No4(T) were those on two trials No4(T)s I owned. Brass tends to be reflective - not a good choice for a sniper - unless he's given to reflection.
    "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." W.L.S.C..

    "None need deceive a people determined to deceive themselves."

    "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you" J.R.K.

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    Gap at wrist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daan Kemp View Post
    Are there pictures of what it looks like?
    Here is a pic of the top of my 1944 47C T shows the gap pretty well all the others I have are a bit fuzzy & out of focus.
    Mine has the mazakicon butt plate as issued, I'm in agreeance with Surpmil reflective stuff could swiftly bring about the demise of a sniper.
    I'm quite sure over the period of time with the hostilities it would have happened to the few snipers that did not take care.

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  12. #26
    Really Senior Member Daan Kemp's Avatar
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    Thanks Cinders.

    I doubt the brass butt plate would reflect in sniper use. Snipers shouldn't be where their equipment reflects anything and the butt plate should be tight against the shoulder.

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  14. #27
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daan Kemp View Post
    Thanks Cinders.

    I doubt the brass butt plate would reflect in sniper use. Snipers shouldn't be where their equipment reflects anything and the butt plate should be tight against the shoulder.
    So they shouldn't be out in the sun then? And keep the butt into the shoulder when crawling?
    "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." W.L.S.C..

    "None need deceive a people determined to deceive themselves."

    "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you" J.R.K.

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    Really Senior Member Daan Kemp's Avatar
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    Preparing includes darkening anything reflecting. Except glass such as the telescope and binocular lenses. Crawling with protective stuff over all reflecting surfaces including barrel, bolt, magazine, sling brass, boots. Etc.

    Keep out of the sun to prevent shine from surfaces, better concealment for movement and reflections, etc.

    The same for scouts, an observation post.

  17. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surpmil View Post
    So they shouldn't be out in the sun then?
    Read one of the military pamphlets and you'll see exactly what they tell you about staying in shadows and such. It ain't like on television.
    Regards, Jim

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  19. #30
    Really Senior Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Why would a sniper polish any of his brass ?

    If you don't polish your brass, it goes dull and eventually 'greenish'.
    The copper reacts with oxygen, carbon dixode and water (all substances any soldier may come into contact with) and the chemical reaction produces verdigris
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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