+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Garand 19SA bolt - when was it introduced?

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Legacy Member Ms15710's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Last On
    05-20-2022 @ 05:29 PM
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21
    Real Name
    Michael
    Local Date
    05-22-2022
    Local Time
    08:17 PM

    Garand 19SA bolt - when was it introduced?

    Hi all,

    This is my first post, and I'm not expecting to garner much attraction here. That being said, I do have a question.

    I have an M1icon Garand that I purchased a while back with the serial number 2769xxx with a barrel date of 5-44. The original owner had it for about forty years or so as part of a much larger collection of various firearms, and upon his passing, much of the collection went to another collector whom I purchased the Garand from. I was told that there was cosmolineicon in the chamber, but the collector I purchased it from cleaned out most of it.

    The rifle's breech is "in the white" and the bore is bright, measuring 1+ TE and 1+ ME. The rifle has all drawing numbers appropriate for an early/mid-44-era rifle except for the bolt which is 19SA A-4<>. As I've read, this is supposed to be -12SA.

    I have both Scott Duff and Bruce Canfield's books, and according to both, the -19SA bolt was not introduced until January 1945. However, in Chapter 6 or 7 of Scott Duff's book, a chart reveals that the drawing number -19SA was introduced around the middle of April 1944. All of the mid-'44 rifles I've come across have had -12SA bolts. Is this an error?

    The finish across the rifle has a uniform, olive green-gray finish, but the bolt has me slightly perplexed. I am hoping experts could clear this up for a burgeoning M1 collector.

    Thank you to any and all who reply!
    Last edited by Ms15710; 01-04-2022 at 02:29 PM.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Chuck in Denver ... Buy-Sell-Trade .. Guns, Cars Motorcycles Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Contributing Member Bob Seijas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 10:06 AM
    Location
    Montville, NJ and Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    2,059
    Real Name
    Bob Seijas
    Local Date
    05-22-2022
    Local Time
    08:17 PM
    Start out by dropping the dash in M1icon.
    Real men measure once and cut.

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Legacy Member RCS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 03:56 PM
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,894
    Real Name
    Robert Seccombe
    Local Date
    05-22-2022
    Local Time
    07:17 PM

    My Springfield s/n 2770090

    They always say buy the gun not the story, in this case, i bought the story. My friend who helps his brother-in-law with estate sales in Wisconsin, found a single shot 22 rim fire, a shotgun and a well used M1icon rifle in a remote area while doing a house sale. He called and said nobody was interested in the M1 as the condition was not that nice, the man who owned it was a WW2 veteran. I told him to buy it for me. This rifle is original, every part is correct for April 1944 and the bore is bright but has a TE of 5.0.

    Barrel is 1SA 4 44 dated no chrome, bolt is -12SA S-A1<>, op rod un cut -9 SA, trigger guard is milled, hammer -5 SA housing -12 SA safety SA_11. also follower 12, follower rod long fork,
    gas cylinder lock screw single slot. stock very, very faint SA GAW.

    Not much finish on the receiver and wood has chips and dents, but it shoots, I tried eight different clips from ball to AP - everything shoots !

  6. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to RCS For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Contributing Member Singer B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Last On
    Today @ 03:53 PM
    Location
    Desert Hot Springs, California
    Posts
    833
    Real Name
    Walt Meyer
    Local Date
    05-22-2022
    Local Time
    07:17 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RCS View Post
    They always say buy the gun not the story, in this case, i bought the story. My friend who helps his brother-in-law with estate sales in Wisconsin, found a single shot 22 rim fire, a shotgun and a well used M1icon rifle in a remote area while doing a house sale. He called and said nobody was interested in the M1 as the condition was not that nice, the man who owned it was a WW2 veteran. I told him to buy it for me. This rifle is original, every part is correct for April 1944 and the bore is bright but has a TE of 5.0.

    Barrel is 1SA 4 44 dated no chrome, bolt is -12SA S-A1<>, op rod un cut -9 SA, trigger guard is milled, hammer -5 SA housing -12 SA safety SA_11. also follower 12, follower rod long fork,
    gas cylinder lock screw single slot. stock very, very faint SA GAW.

    Not much finish on the receiver and wood has chips and dents, but it shoots, I tried eight different clips from ball to AP - everything shoots ! Attachment 122973Attachment 122974Attachment 122975Attachment 122976
    That is a beautiful gun...looks exactly as it should for its history....

  8. #5
    Legacy Member Ms15710's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Last On
    05-20-2022 @ 05:29 PM
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21
    Real Name
    Michael
    Local Date
    05-22-2022
    Local Time
    08:17 PM
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Singer B View Post
    That is a beautiful gun...looks exactly as it should for its history....
    Wow, that’s an incredible find. It’s my dream to end up with a rifle like that. I don’t have any connections so I have to rely on your typical auction sites, but a rifle like that is more special than any unissued collector’s piece or gas trap. Beautiful!

    ---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Seijasicon View Post
    Start out by dropping the dash in M1icon.
    Sorry, fixed it for you.

  9. #6
    Contributing Member Bob Seijas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 10:06 AM
    Location
    Montville, NJ and Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    2,059
    Real Name
    Bob Seijas
    Local Date
    05-22-2022
    Local Time
    08:17 PM

    Grammar Police

    Sorry, didn't mean to sound snarky but as an editor I can't resist those things
    Real men measure once and cut.

  10. #7
    Legacy Member Ms15710's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Last On
    05-20-2022 @ 05:29 PM
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21
    Real Name
    Michael
    Local Date
    05-22-2022
    Local Time
    08:17 PM
    Thread Starter
    Oh, it is no worries at all, I completely understand. The first book I ever read on World War II was Stephen Ambrose's Citizen Soldiers, followed by his book about D-Day, and he routinely referred to the Garandicon as an "M-1". I read the books in the fourth grade, and ever since it's typically how I've written it out. I'll make sure to cut out that habit though.

  11. #8
    Legacy Member Milwroad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 07:26 PM
    Posts
    36
    Local Date
    05-22-2022
    Local Time
    07:17 PM
    Back to your original question, in the Fall 2008 Garand Collector Journal I believe there is an original M1icon, serial 2742717, with a -19 bolt.

  12. #9
    Legacy Member Ms15710's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Last On
    05-20-2022 @ 05:29 PM
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21
    Real Name
    Michael
    Local Date
    05-22-2022
    Local Time
    08:17 PM
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Milwroad View Post
    Back to your original question, in the Fall 2008 Garand Collector Journal I believe there is an original M1icon, serial 2742717, with a -19 bolt.
    Thank you for the reply!

    Does anyone have a link or available source to this journal entry?

    It is just very confusing. I’ve only ever seen the -19SA bolt on verified original that were manufactured in late ‘44, typically January ‘45 onward, while -12SA is almost always on mid ‘44 rifles.

    Scott Duff and Bruce Canfield both state as such in their books, although a chart in Duff’s red book says -19SA started in April ‘44. Very confusing indeed.

  13. #10
    Contributing Member Bob Seijas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 10:06 AM
    Location
    Montville, NJ and Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    2,059
    Real Name
    Bob Seijas
    Local Date
    05-22-2022
    Local Time
    08:17 PM

    GCA 2008

    Springfield M1icon serial 2742717 was recovered by Jo (Joseph) Gentil from the body of an American GI who had been killed on the morning of August 27, 1944 during the capture of the village of Plousané in western France. He also took the cartridge belt and left his Germanicon Mauser rifle next to the fallen GI. The American soldier was a member of the 29th Infantry Division, 2nd Battalion, 175th Infantry Regiment, and had been killed in combat in the cemetery around the church in Plousané. Gentil was from the village and was part of the Free Frenchicon resistance group of Saint Renan about five miles to the north. These partisans fought alongside the US 29th Infantry Division for the liberation of Le Conquet peninsula that includes the city of Brest.
    Real men measure once and cut.

  14. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to Bob Seijas For This Useful Post:


+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Swedish m96 Front Sight Hood, When introduced?
    By ptf18 in forum Mauser Rifles
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-12-2012, 04:33 AM
  2. Black buttplates on Long Branches - when were they introduced?
    By spinecracker in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-28-2012, 12:24 PM
  3. Winchester M-1 Garand bolt and H&R M-14 bolt
    By Light Infantry in forum M1 Garand/M14/M1A Rifles
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-25-2011, 01:46 PM
  4. When was the Hatcher Hole introduced?
    By RBruce in forum M1903/1903A3/A4 Springfield Rifle
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-02-2010, 08:18 PM
  5. When in 1949 was the N0.4 Mk.2 introduced?
    By spinecracker in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 10-28-2009, 06:02 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts