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Thread: Win Mod12 Trench Gun Conversion

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  1. #131
    Legacy Member Madcap's Avatar
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    I admit to being critical and for expecting reasonably good work. I try to take most projects pretty seriously but appreciate not everyone shares that same intention. However there should have been no excuse for allowing that work to leave the shop. My bayonet wouldn't possibly fit onto that lug without corrective filing and by then any corrections to it would have caused the bayonet to be completely loose. In truth I expected he had the tooling that machined the parts to proper specs. Apparently that can not be the case. Even that being the case, proper hand filing could still have provided the correct fit and finish.

    Less than perfect products have to be expected sometimes especially these days. In this case I'm still in shock over the catastrophic results waiting over 16 weeks provided.
    Supposedly cancellation was approved refunding the M97 adapter order and I notified him the return of the M12, sent yesterday hoping he'll refund that amount also.

    As a comparison a SARCO repro example that was formerly sold on GUNSAMERICA is attached. The lug clearly appears more usable. Too bad they're nit available.
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    Last edited by Madcap; 08-06-2022 at 04:01 PM.

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  3. #132
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madcap View Post
    The photos don't actually show how ugly the work really is. It's is so bad it's difficult to think he expects to be paid money for it. I don't like having to mention it but the only explanation I can think of is he must be an older man possibly suffering dementia and eye problems. In any case the disappointment is pretty overwhelming and I've decided to call tomorrow and return it for a refund. I also ordered one for a model '97 as well a few days following this order.
    Sadly, more and more common; unrecognized strokes? Even before Covid I knew several machinists who were real craftsmen, but whose work suddenly went to pot - and worst of all, they were clearly unable to tell that it had!
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

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  5. #133
    Legacy Member Madcap's Avatar
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    I never could have expected how difficult this would process would have been. I'll continue to follow up forming a handguard from the the flat stock rcathey generously provided. The first chance I can get to my friend's shop and use his hydraulic press I'll post results. They've been dealing with a pretty serious wild fire where he's located out in the country for the last few days and he's one of the fireman involved.

    Anyway I'm inspired to get this over with.

    Madcap
    Last edited by Madcap; 08-08-2022 at 12:04 PM.

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  7. #134
    Legacy Member Madcap's Avatar
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    I finally got out to work on the last two flats this afternoon with use of a hydraulic press. The temp was couple degrees cooler today so wasn't too oppressive. The first attempt was only practice getting everything set up since I over stressed one of the two dimples on that flat before working n it t the house. The second attempt and the longer of the three total flats was turned out perfectly. All remains is the two dimples and attaching it to my M12 original adapter.

    Photos will be posted hopefully by next week.

    Thanks to all for hanging around and waiting this process out.

    Madcap

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  9. #135
    Contributing Member rcathey's Avatar
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    Does it feel stiff/sturdy enough now that it’s bent?

  10. #136
    Legacy Member Madcap's Avatar
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    Hello rc - yes, It appears perfect so far. I think it'll work. I still need to add the two dimples or whatever they're called and match drill holes to the adapter. After that take it to a local shop and have it welded or silver soldered to the adapter. I'm not certain yet how they did it originally.

    I'll check back in soon as possible with the results maybe next week. At any rate thanks to you this project looks very successful.

  11. #137
    Contributing Member ssgross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madcap View Post
    I still need to add the two dimples or whatever they're called
    just thinking out loud - you need a form, and a rounded punch to get it perfect.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00819DRNE
    I bought these when making and attaching clips+rivets to new krag handgaurds.
    For a form, you could make your own - drill a hole in a block of hardwood or aluminum, and carefully round over the edge of the hole with a needle file, chamfer tool, whatever works.
    Or, maybe a round rivet-set form would work too?
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QWE5PR6

    repro adapter and shield auction now. expensive.
    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/942452529
    Last edited by ssgross; 08-17-2022 at 02:18 PM.

  12. #138
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssgross View Post
    repro adapter and shield auction now
    And appears to have been thrashed once. Typical.
    Regards, Jim

  13. #139
    Legacy Member Madcap's Avatar
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    After studying a few original examples I'm pretty confident they were riveted. What I'm not sure of is if they were also silver soldered and the heads dressed down because the edge appear too uniform..

  14. #140
    Contributing Member ssgross's Avatar
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    Some good pictures of what is hopefully an original here
    https://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...n_id=100668926

    I thought you were talking about making the standoff "dimples", like you see here


    Attachments to the bayonet adapter in the above look like obvious flush rivets. Lots of other pics they look like tac welds. Makes me wonder if they used different means between beginning and end production.

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