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  1. #1
    Contributing Member Singer B's Avatar
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    Post-Surgery Projects

    I am getting a new knee next week and the doctor said I am going to be limited as to what I can do for a few weeks. Fortunately, the gun room isn't off-limits! I went to my local gun store looking for a simple project to work on during the recovery and came home with two projects.

    The first one appears to be a toy rifle. Can anyone advise where I might find more information on it so I can determine if it should be refurbished and if so, what it should look like?
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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Chuck in Denver ... Buy-Sell-Trade .. Guns, Cars Motorcycles Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

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    Contributing Member Singer B's Avatar
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    The second is a pretty nice M1868 Springfield Trapdoor 50-70. Looks like all of the parts are there and it just needs some love. Can anyone advise what the correct stock finish would be?
    Thank you for your assistance!
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    Legacy Member RossMkIIEnjoyer's Avatar
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    Looks similar to this. Maybe Parris-Dunn training rifle. https://www.ima-usa.com/products/ori...=5885048389670

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    Contributing Member Aragorn243's Avatar
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    The first is indeed a toy rifle. It may have been made by Paris Dunn but it is not a training rifle. I have both types, Army and Navy and they can be looked at here:

    https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=69384

    The company had a good thing going and made these for years after the war. This is a simplified version of the Army version which is in turn a simplified version of the Navy version. Cadet corps, Boy Scouts, etc may have used them but they were also under a lot of Christmas trees. Not really much to restore with it, it looks to be in about average condition for the type. There's no scale to your photo so is this a full scale or smaller scale rifle? I have one that I have not photographed that is roughly 2/3rd's scale for smaller kids.

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    Contributing Member Singer B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aragorn243 View Post
    The first is indeed a toy rifle. It may have been made by Paris Dunn but it is not a training rifle. I have both types, Army and Navy and they can be looked at here:

    https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=69384

    The company had a good thing going and made these for years after the war. This is a simplified version of the Army version which is in turn a simplified version of the Navy version. Cadet corps, Boy Scouts, etc may have used them but they were also under a lot of Christmas trees. Not really much to restore with it, it looks to be in about average condition for the type. There's no scale to your photo so is this a full scale or smaller scale rifle? I have one that I have not photographed that is roughly 2/3rd's scale for smaller kids.
    I think that you and RossMkII are both correct reference it being a Paris Dunn. I think it is one of the smaller ones. Since it doesn't have any collector value, it looks like it is going to get the full treatment!!

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    Contributing Member Aragorn243's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singer B View Post
    I think that you and RossMkII are both correct reference it being a Paris Dunn. I think it is one of the smaller ones. Since it doesn't have any collector value, it looks like it is going to get the full treatment!!
    I wouldn’t say it has no collector value, toys are collectible, toy guns are popular. I collect toys and as with all things, original condition is the most sought after but restorations are common and can be worth more than a poor example in original condition.

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    Legacy Member jamie5070's Avatar
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    I would think that the trapdoor stock finish is linseed oilicon. Use something to lightly clean it and start rubbing in light coats of boiled linseed oilicon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singer B View Post
    I am getting a new knee next week and the doctor said I am going to be limited as to what I can do for a few weeks. Fortunately, the gun room isn't off-limits! I went to my local gun store looking for a simple project to work on during the recovery and came home with two projects.

    The first one appears to be a toy rifle. Can anyone advise where I might find more information on it so I can determine if it should be refurbished and if so, what it should look like?
    These were drill rifles, also used by high schools for their color guard to carry in formation with the marching band. Typically, each member purchased her own rifle. My wife carried a white painted version of that rifle for two years in her high school color guard. The first modification was to remove the sling and swivels - you couldn't twirl with the sling in place. Then as they twirled and threw the rifles, the flimsy trigger guard would fly off, exposing the trigger as a knife. My wife started her tenure in color guard by going to a summer camp. She returned a week later with a wound in the web of her hand from being repeatedly stabbed by the trigger. That was ameliorated when they transitioned to performing while wearing white gloves. Her marching band eventually performed the National Anthem at the 1977 Yankees/Dodgers game.

    Bob
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  12. #9
    Contributing Member Singer B's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone, you have given me some really good info to work with!

  13. #10
    Contributing Member Aragorn243's Avatar
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    I've written up a reply for this twice now and must have forgotten to submit both of them.

    Paris continued to make their rifles after the war for the civilian toy market. In 1952, they moved to Savannah TN and they started a new program called Kadets of America. To market this, they made a comic book which detailed how to create your neighborhood group. They also set up a "school" near their factory. This continued through 1970. Rifles produced for this program generally will have Kadet trainer on the buttstock and depending on condition may have a decal on the side of the buttstock.

    I don't know if they specifically ever made the rifles used by high school color guards, I've found no evidence of that but they may have been the forerunners there as well. Most of these are painted white and are made by several other companies now.

    Paris is still in business. I do not know if they are making their toy rifles here or in China. I see no "Made in USAicon" branding on their website so it isn't looking good for here.

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