1870/87/15 Vetterli Carcano

[mattgunguy]

The wife's latest prize. She drug it home a couple days ago.

Italian Vetterli Carcano 1870/87/15. Made at Torre Annunziata in 1884. The wood is in pretty good shape. Metal is in great shape, with major or minor pitting or rust that I've found so far. I've yet to pull it out of the stock, so there's time. The bore looks like it came out of the factory yesterday. Cleaning rod is a nice bonus as well.

Gonna work up some low power plinking loads for her, since I've read that these can be kind of explody with standard loadings.

Pictured with its slightly younger sibling. 1891 Carcano long rifle, made 1893.

[bob q]

Yes explody , the Italian military issued a rifle that killed their own troops . They were never meant to be shot , that is why instead of just keeping them in the original caliber they went to all the trouble to make them take frontline ammo and clips to be a repeater . There are a few really brilliant articles written about this by people with no understanding of how guns work .

[mattgunguy]

Aye, it would be strange for a government to issue a rifle that'd kill its own troops. But governments have done dumber things.
I'm unfamiliar with these rifles. Until I know more & can be sure, I'll er in the side of caution and assume that they can be easily explody. It's my head & my families head behind it.

If you can point me in the direction of those articles you mentioned, it'd be greatly appreciated.

[bob q]

Why would you want to read a stupid , uninformed article ?

[mattgunguy]

I like to read & learn & to know what to look for & what to avoid. Can learn from both the informed & uninformed. Then I can make my own decisions.

[Aragorn243]

These rifles were created with the intent they were to be used in emergency situations by rear echelon troops to which they were issued. They were never intended to be used as front-line weapons with the repeated use of standard ammunition. This is FACT.

Now if you want to shoot an old rifle with unknown number of previously fired standard ammunition it was never designed for, you do so at your own risk. This is the only rifle that has ever blown up being tested by C&Rsenal and not one but two blew up on them.

[Daan Kemp]

Very interesting. Could you please refer me to some reading material about this, I would love to know more of the machiavellian thinking that created such a rifle.

[green]

Very interesting. Could you please refer me to some reading material about this, I would love to know more of the machiavellian thinking that created such a rifle.

"The Italian Vetterli Rifle" Wiley

[bob q]

It is not a fact at all . The video guys are know for not knowing what they are doing , there are many problems with many videos . They had an ammo problem , they did not use original ammo . The real facts are those rifles have been dug up at many front line battlefield digs . There would have been no reason to make them repeaters with front line ammo if they were not meant to be fired , they could have just left them in the original caliber as they had plenty of smokeless ammo for that . The rifles where made from the same steel as the early Carcanos , they have two locking lugs and original ammo is not that high of pressure as military ammo goes . Just because a rifle was "designed " for one caliber does not mean it can only fire one caliber . Or is that why Remington 700's are in just one caliber ? Back when they were real cheap a Friend fired over 100 rounds of original ammo through one 6.5mm Vetterli with no problems .

[Aragorn243]

It is fact Bob. These rifles were designed to free up the new production 1891 rifles to the front line. They were issued to artillery units, militias, colonial troops and other rear Eschelon units. I have three books including the one mentioned above, The Italian Vetterli Rifle, that state this. They had 1,000,000 of them at the start of WWI, they converted 400,000 of them. They sold 10's of thousands of them to the Russians who used them in the original caliber.

I realize you have great disdain for books and those that write them, you've mentioned this before. Yet you have never written one despite your "great expertise," As I stated then, I will go with people how have taken the time to research the subject and publish their findings over the opinion of some random dude on the internet that has nothing to support his position. When said books are backed up with a video showing the actual failures and then explaining how the failures occurred, there really isn't much doubt left.

What ammo problem did they have in the video? You got that simply by watching it? These people have put out hundreds of videos as they test them, they know what they are doing. The second rifle failed with reduced loads. They most certainly did not start out with hot loads. They know the pressure limitations of the design which is also mentioned in at least one of the books I possess which calls the action marginal and in the next sentence states they should never be fired with modern ammunition which oddly enough is less powerful than the military loads of the time.

They were meant to be fired, in a limited amount in emergency situations by troops that normally would not see combat. As wars change and tactics change, they did indeed see some service at the front lines as the lines moved more rapidly than expected, yet this was never their intent. They did not keep them in the original caliber for the same reason they stopped producing the 7.35 rifles at the beginning of WWII. It is a logistical problem to maintain different calibers of ammunition and much easier to have one. Some nations have no problems with it, the Italians did.

Good for your friend. Many people have fired 100 rounds through their rifles with no issues. What happens on the 101st round? The 200th? C&Rarsenal fired a few dozen rounds through theirs and had two fail. What you do with your rifles is your business. When you find any reputable source that states these rifles are safe to fire modern ammo, please present it. Your opinion is worthless, you are not facing any liability for a failure.

No one recommends these be fired today except a few people such as yourself that think they know more than everyone else in the firearms world. Anyone selling them also puts disclaimers on them to avoid liability. This isn't done with "safe" rifles. While there is risk with any rifle, the risk is pretty high with these.

Shoot at your own risk.