+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 21 to 30 of 30

Thread: No 3 Mk 1 (T) (P14 with Warner-Swasey)

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #21
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last On
    @
    Location
    West side
    Posts
    4,937
    Local Date
    02-17-2025
    Local Time
    04:07 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Riter View Post
    Checking with auction houses now for images.
    Was there one auctioned that you know of?

    Seeing as the P.14s were issued from Britishicon stocks and were never a general issue in Canadaicon, I'd suspect the 80(?) were almost all turned in before Canadian troops returned from Europe. I say "almost" because like scoped Ross Mk.III rifles, a few were obviously kept back as souvenirs by individuals or certain battalions. If the rifles were turned in the scopes probably were as well, as being of no further use except as scrap, just as was ordained for the W&S scopes in Canada in 1944, according to the correspondence that Clive Law found.

    In fact probably all the small arms issued from British stocks were turned in; simpler to equip the much smaller post-war Canadian regular army with new than transport, store and refurbish rifles that had had seen a year or two of war service. One of the questions that should have been asked when the people that knew were still alive!

    Most of the Canadian issue W&S scopes that have turned up seem to have come out of Quebec; I found two there myself. That could be simply because that's where Longue Pointe and some other major ordnance depots are or were.

    Clearly a scrap dealer decided some were worth more as scopes than as scrap and didn't send them all off for the melt. Despite having a couple of pounds of bronze in them, they would only be "irony" scrap due to all the steel parts and probably not worth disassembly to get a higher metal price.
    Last edited by Surpmil; 12-21-2024 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Typo
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #22
    Legacy Member Riter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Last On
    01-07-2025 @ 04:20 PM
    Location
    Coloradostan
    Posts
    118
    Real Name
    GY
    Local Date
    02-17-2025
    Local Time
    05:07 PM
    Thread Starter
    Surpmil - I an unaware of any being auctioned off. Like contacting museums, it's a shot in the dark to locate images or a surviving rifle. I recently contacted Colin Stevens too and he's unaware off any surviving examples.

    If you want to tease yourself look at the old 1938-9 American Rifleman Magazines. There were monthly ads featuring surplus W-S with case were being sold cheap (by our standards but a princely ransom by 1939 Great Depression standard). Hard times back then and most people spent their ducats on essentials.

    BTW, best story I heard of the pre-WW II era was an American who bought every single new tire he could find. He filled his warehouse with them. He knew war was coming and that there would be a rubber shortage. When the war broke out and rubber was neeeded by the military, he made bank.

  4. Thank You to Riter For This Useful Post:


  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #23
    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,879
    Local Date
    02-18-2025
    Local Time
    01:07 AM
    See .. the very interesting thing is the Britishicon DID do a drawing for the W&S scope to be used on the P.14 rifle. Attached is a cutout of this drawing. It dates 7-2-40, not knowing if the British prefer this weird way of putting the date or not, it may therefore had been either February or July 1940 when this drawing was made.


    Note that this bracket puts the scope very high above the receiver. Additionally it sits on top of the receiver ring. And this is where it gets interesting - because the two pictures of the Canadianicon Sniper with the W&S on his Eddystone P.14 clearly DOESN'T have this bracket.


    As a result to this .. there may actually have been two versions of the W&S scope on the P.14 rifle. Or - what may also well had been - they just used the rail from the Ross Rifle, milled the receiver (especially the ears of the rear sight protector) to clear the scope, and that was the only one actually ever making it to production.
    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	WandSP14.jpg‎
Views:	82
Size:	296.0 KB
ID:	138077  

  7. Thank You to Promo For This Useful Post:


  8. #24
    Legacy Member Riter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Last On
    01-07-2025 @ 04:20 PM
    Location
    Coloradostan
    Posts
    118
    Real Name
    GY
    Local Date
    02-17-2025
    Local Time
    05:07 PM
    Thread Starter
    Two mounting pads that are attached to the reciever via two screws each and then the mounting bracket attached to the pad also by two screws on each end.

    Wouldn't the scope wound conceal the bracket?

  9. #25
    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,879
    Local Date
    02-18-2025
    Local Time
    01:07 AM
    The pictures clearly illustrate the rifle does not have something added to the receiver ring as well as that the scope isn't sitting as high as a scope would be with the bracket as shown in the drawing. To me therefore it is clear the rifle in the pictures has a rail added to the side of the receiver.

  10. #26
    Legacy Member Riter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Last On
    01-07-2025 @ 04:20 PM
    Location
    Coloradostan
    Posts
    118
    Real Name
    GY
    Local Date
    02-17-2025
    Local Time
    05:07 PM
    Thread Starter
    I see what you're talking about now. I bet the actual base was a simpler design that didn't have backets. It could have been one piece that milled and fitted to the receiver. That would be less labor intensive than the one in the drawing.

  11. #27
    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,879
    Local Date
    02-18-2025
    Local Time
    01:07 AM
    Someone on this forum once posted his build, it was a Remington made and he has had the Ross Rail fitted to the receiver, plus cutting the ears of the rear sight. For what I remember that was enough. Fail to find the pictures right now.

  12. #28
    Legacy Member Riter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Last On
    01-07-2025 @ 04:20 PM
    Location
    Coloradostan
    Posts
    118
    Real Name
    GY
    Local Date
    02-17-2025
    Local Time
    05:07 PM
    Thread Starter
    I would not butcher a Ross base to adapt it to the P-14. Oh the humanity! I'd rather pay a machinist to make a base to fit the P-14.

  13. Thank You to Riter For This Useful Post:


  14. #29
    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last On
    @
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,879
    Local Date
    02-18-2025
    Local Time
    01:07 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Riter View Post
    I would not butcher a Ross base to adapt it to the P-14. Oh the humanity! I'd rather pay a machinist to make a base to fit the P-14.
    That base was a reproduction base that was altered. They are not complicated. Plus I yet have to see an original spare W&S rail for the Ross Rifle.

  15. #30
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last On
    @
    Location
    West side
    Posts
    4,937
    Local Date
    02-17-2025
    Local Time
    04:07 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Riter View Post
    I would not butcher a Ross base to adapt it to the P-14. Oh the humanity! I'd rather pay a machinist to make a base to fit the P-14.
    There was reference in the correspondence unearthed by Clive Law to additional Ross bases being made up in Canadaicon before WWII so as to make up the shortfall of rifles as compared to scopes then in store.

    The shortfall in rifles was presumably due to their having been scrapped as unserviceable following WWI service, whether in training use or otherwise. That or they were "lost" somewhere in the ordnance stores due to improper record keeping. Clive Law pointed out that the rifles and scopes were in the 1930s actually stored in separate depots, one in Quebec and one in Ontario!

    The bases used on the Patt.14 rifles were probably new-made Ross bases modified to suit at some point.
    Last edited by Surpmil; 01-11-2025 at 08:39 PM.
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3

Similar Threads

  1. Warner & Swasey scope -2-
    By Melanie_Daniels in forum Pattern 1913/1914 and M1917 Rifles
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 02-28-2023, 04:12 AM
  2. Warner & Swasey Mounting Instructions
    By Mike D in forum M1903/1903A3/A4 Springfield Rifle
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-11-2019, 01:10 PM
  3. 1903 Springfield Warner Swasey
    By Molonlave in forum M1903/1903A3/A4 Springfield Rifle
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-01-2015, 07:53 PM
  4. Warner Swasey Exloded View
    By Salt Flat in forum M1903/1903A3/A4 Springfield Rifle
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-16-2015, 11:41 PM
  5. Warner & Swasey scope mounted on a Patt. 14 (T)?
    By lhbh2o in forum Pattern 1913/1914 and M1917 Rifles
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 09-17-2009, 05:55 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts