Faz 1959 made L1A1

[mrclark303]

Afternoon all, what do we make of this?

I've only ever seen one other Faz made L1A1 and that was converted into an instructional action.

https://www.enfieldguns.com/l1a1-fazaerley

The receiver appears original, I think the TMH is a renumbered replacement. I'll guarantee the bolt group isn't original either, electro penciled replacements.

£7,500!!

Now that's 'a lot' of money for what only really amounts to a Faz receiver, even if it's very rare...

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Lee Enfield]

The serial number indicates that 53,118 L1 rifles were built at FAZ by 1959...

I would suspect that if the F59 marking at the magazine well is real, that someone at Enfield F'd up the E in the serial number coding.

Although the F59 at the serial number looks different than the rest of the serial number.

[Roy W]

This is the same company that blatantly forged an L42 a couple of years ago and, when outed on here, ground the stamping down and re-did it to try an make it more convincing.

Caveat Emptor

[mrclark303]

This is the same company that blatantly forged an L42 a couple of years ago and, when outed on here, ground the stamping down and re-did it to try an make it more convincing.

Caveat Emptor

Unfortunately, we all know what happened to the boy who cried wolf!

It makes you cast doubt on everything that comes from the same source....

---------- Post added at 09:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 PM ----------

The serial number indicates that 53,118 L1 rifles were built at FAZ by 1959...

I would suspect that if the F59 marking at the magazine well is real, that someone at Enfield F'd up the E in the serial number coding.

Although the F59 at the serial number looks different than the rest of the serial number.

That's a very good point, although the Faz markings look correct, you have to seriously doubt that many rifles being made..

I doubt they assembled more than 100 examples...

Waiting for KtK and PL to pitch in, looking increasingly doubtful though....

[enbloc8]

What are the odds of an example surviving in perfect condition from the early years of a weapon that had a long and VERY busy service life. (Of course there are exceptions, but still....)

And I have never even heard of a UF-marked TMH turning up over here in the US. If any existed, I expect word would have gotten around, even as simple as a picture of one posted on a forum asking "what builder is UF??"

[Peter Laidler]

I haven''t read all of the guff that the advert puts out. The dates just do not stack up. Fazakerley were incapable of producing the rifle to any sort of timed schedule and BSA were approached to take up the slack. Production was to be an all ROF matter - like the pirated Sterling! BSA were approached early on regarding possible production if Faz failed to make any headway. They failed and by 1958 BSA production started in 1958 (UB 58A 121xxx was mine) so it begs the question that if BSA were already successfully taking over the the Fazakerley production AND the Faz L1A1 rifle manufacturing tooling was already on its way to Lithgow, why on earth would Faz be making L1A1 rifles in 1959.

There are no government records of ANY L1A1 rifle production at Fazakerley. And I never saw one either. A rifle was considered produced as an accountable item when the body - the master component - was numbered, in the white, just prior to being sent for proof and phosphating

FAZ did continue production of many parts and for many years, the UF or F58 marking could be seen on Lithgow made rifles along with some FAZ parts. ALL early cracked gas cylinders came from the doomed FAZ factory which was known to us as ROF-6

[mrclark303]

I haven''t read all of the guff that the advert puts out. The dates just do not stack up. Fazakerley were incapable of producing the rifle to any sort of timed schedule and BSA were approached to take up the slack. Production was to be an all ROF matter - like the pirated Sterling! BSA were approached early on regarding possible production if Faz failed to make any headway. They failed and by 1958 BSA production started in 1958 (UB 58A 121xxx was mine) so it begs the question that if BSA were already successfully taking over the the Fazakerley production AND the Faz L1A1 rifle manufacturing tooling was already on its way to Lithgow, why on earth would Faz be making L1A1 rifles in 1959.

There are no government records of ANY L1A1 rifle production at Fazakerley. And I never saw one either. A rifle was considered produced as an accountable item when the body - the master component - was numbered, in the white, just prior to being sent for proof and phosphating

FAZ did continue production of many parts and for many years, the UF or F58 marking could be seen on Lithgow made rifles along with some FAZ parts. ALL early cracked gas cylinders came from the doomed FAZ factory which was known to us as ROF-6

Cheers Peter, isn't it interesting...

Somewhere here ( if someone cares to look) there's a picture of a skeletonised L1A1, with Faz markings on the receiver I came across on the web a while ago.

It's the only evidence of a (possibly) complete Faz example I ever came across.

I wonder if this started as an unused Faz marked body and it's been built up and marked as such for 7,500 good reasons?!

Allegedly, the same dealer had a magically renumbering L42 a while back, so it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to put 2 and 2 together..... Again, allegedly......

[desperatedan]

Is it this post of yours John? Sadly the picture on here is no more, I imagine disappeared as part of the great image loss problem suffered here.

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=62407

[mrclark303]

Is it this post of yours John? Sadly the picture on here is no more, I imagine disappeared as part of the great image loss problem suffered here.

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=62407

That's the one Kev .... I'm away at the moment, I'll see if I can find the image on my office Pc when I get back mate...

[enbloc8]

I have the picture in question, just no way to upload it. I also have at least one photo of an undated Faz receiver that was completed as an Enfield Rifle.

Also, I've seen a fair number of Faz small parts here in the States over many years, some furniture, and some magazines (I have three or four), but I think I've seen no more than three marked barrels at most.