PPCo scope with matching numbers pouch

[Promo]

I recently have had the chance to purchase a near immaculate PPCo scope on the PPCo dovetail mount, complete with the matching numbers scope pouch, which had been a WWI trophy of a German soldier. Aside of very superficial rust pittings where the original scope leather covers respectively the band that connects the two covers had been touching the metal of the scope there are practically zero signs of wear.


Not sure whether this one qualifies as an early or a late PPCo scope, and if the 7 on the front of the mount is a pairing number to the base, but maybe someone can educate me on them?

Information

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[Brian B]

That's a beautiful scope!! Thanks for sharing and congratulations on your acquisition!!

Brian

[Surpmil]

Much can be learned from such pristine examples: the white infill which is presumably original, the configuration of the lens caps. Things previously unknown AFAIK.

[Roger Payne]

Nice find Georg.

[Promo]

Much can be learned from such pristine examples: the white infill which is presumably original

Actually that is crayon that I used to point out the markings better when taking the pictures. Originally these were "empty". This though is quite helpful, with the better contrast I came to the assumption (hope Roger can confirm) that even the same letters are slighly different, meaning that not only the rifle and patent number was hand engraved, but obviously also the company name. Quite a waste of labor IMHO.


Roger, any way to educate me whether this is an early or a late PPCo? Looking at my other PPCo it turns out both are for rifles in the T block. Maybe they did pick them in certain batches and therefore we are to assume some letters are to be seen more often as sniper rifles as others? Or just a wild thought of mine from looking at a handful scopes?

[Roger Payne]

There is so much we don't know for sure about this Great War kit. That is one of the things that I find fascinating. Enclosed a few pictures of some of my scopes. Note one of them is also a T prefix. I can't remember if it was from TBS or whether it may have been a conversation with IDS but he mentioned that most of the serials on authentic SMLE snipers of the Great War era are all near the beginning or the end of the alphabet. Of course, whilst it is an interesting observation, it may simply be chance, as so few original rifles survive. Of course, rifle serials engraved on scopes give us more data to chew on.

I also no longer believe that only Enfield produced SMLE's were converted to snipers.........the Charnwood Ordnance rifle was I am pretty sure correct, & was built on a BSA receiver. I have an Aldis scope which bears a serial number that was allocated to a 1915 LSA. However, there is no doubt that, of the few genuine surviving examples, most seem to be built on RSAF Enfield production.

Note the scope with the 'wrap around' range drum saddle. I own only this example, but know of one or two more. I have little evidence to back it up, but suspect this is a quite early variant. One way one can get an idea if a scope is early is if its rings bear the 'Patent Applied For'. Clearly this suggests (probably, relatively) early production. This is only from my rather faulty memory, but I cannot recall off hand seeing any of the 'long cone' scopes with 'Patent Applied For' on them, which suggests that they are later than the 'short cone' type. I have often thought that the point at which the cone flattens out to the threaded part at its front is a weak area in the design, & I have seen a couple of scopes where this area had broken away. The 'long cone' type is much stronger here, & so it would make sense that it came later as a design improvement. However, this is just supposition on my part.....

[rgg_7]

Mine is identical to Promo's - same Patent date 1915 however serial number is "X 5654". SN appears in same locations - top of scope bracket and the back face of the mount. Has original leather scope caps. Ron (Canada)

[Promo]

Very interesting Roger. I also noticed that the one with the "Pat. App. For" of yours has a broad arrow on the scope tube, whereas the scope with the patent number on it has that broad arrow above the rifle number on the mount, whereas mine, being one with patent number on the scope mount too, seems to lack the broad arrow at all?!

[Roger Payne]

Maybe not infinite variations, but quite a few!

[Surpmil]

I happened to see a photo of a WWII Arisaka scope base recently. The similarity to the PPCo. mount design was rather striking. The difference of course was the adjustable, ie: collimatable and zero-able rings on the Arisaka.

If these PPCo. scopes were in fact truly collimated, presumably they were set up in a jig similar to that used for the No.4(T) conversions and the body sides machined to suit.

Or does that odd reference in your manual cited elsewhere Roger to the impracticality of zeroing for windage beyond 100 yards suggest it was all a bit more vague on the PPCo. setups?