M91 “Calvary” Carbine for my son

[Ovidio]

Neither did I...
Sorry for your "anal" side coming out so blatantly and publicly

[KneverKnew]

I'm sorry, I fought it as long as I could but the anal side of me won out. Cavalry.

LOL!! Yes you are right!! I didn’t realize it either. I will try and make the change so your anal side can unclench. LOL!! Thanks.




---------- Post added at 08:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 AM ----------

You can decide if you want to reload with .264 bullets and stay on the safe side (if the bore is a tad dark but the rifling strong, also the accuracy might be more than ok. I shot quite a few Norma rounds in my Carcano, and they are loaded with .264 bullets.
Or you can use the .268 bullets. But the gain twist barrel causes some headaches sometimes. A wrong powder could cause the pressure to go up. Look for good reloading data if you can.
For what matters, I use 37,0 grs of W760 and a MLR primer and the results are great. Just too bad that powder is unobtanium here...
I don't know if you have it there, but there is another powder used by lots of Carcano shooters, the Tubal 5000. I don't have the reloading data in my head, but I have a reloading manual with them in. If you want, just let me know here or per PM.

Enjoy the little Italian rascal!

Thanks. Yes I have various powders to use. Many are specifically for older milsurps rounds.
Are you using the magnum LR primers mainly for use with the W760?
I have book data in the Hornady manual to go by and I believe they used a carbine to developed the loads. Powders listed should be fine. I have lots of .264 bullets to try plus the two bags of PRVI .268’s. I hope to do a chamber cast soon to get good measurements. I expect a worn throat.

[Ovidio]

Are you using the magnum LR primers mainly for use with the W760?

I use the magnum primers because they are suggested by many sources (not last by Dave Emary) and I found that with that load my old 91 long rifle shoots really well.
No sign of overpressure on the primers nor on the brass, no "wind" in the face from the pressure release gap, a nice, strong bang with good recoil, like a military round should deliver.
Everything as I'd expect it and also accurate.
I made some extreme tests with the W760, going loooooow with the load and using normal LR primers. Every now and then I got a whiff in the face, but I have the privilege of having a rifle that's been in our hands since 1932, when Grandpa won it in a national contest. And it was brand new. So, no risk of tampering, bad maintenance or other strange things.
It only shot military rounds until I happened to "intercept" it.

[KneverKnew]

I use the magnum primers because they are suggested by many sources (not last by Dave Emary) and I found that with that load my old 91 long rifle shoots really well.
No sign of overpressure on the primers nor on the brass, no "wind" in the face from the pressure release gap, a nice, strong bang with good recoil, like a military round should deliver.
Everything as I'd expect it and also accurate.
I made some extreme tests with the W760, going loooooow with the load and using normal LR primers. Every now and then I got a whiff in the face, but I have the privilege of having a rifle that's been in our hands since 1932, when Grandpa won it in a national contest. And it was brand new. So, no risk of tampering, bad maintenance or other strange things.
It only shot military rounds until I happened to "intercept" it.

That’s awesome. Have you slugged the bore for an actual diameter? My understanding is they are all .268” although they vary some one side or the other of that diameter. But not .264”. Am I wrong?

[Ovidio]

I didn't slug the bore on this one, because there is no reason. It is 100% as issued, plus it was treated really well.
The diameter should be .268 between grooves, not lands. The military bullets have the same diameter, and weigh 162 grs. (about. I weighed a few and there are a couple grains tolerance, I have the feeling).
.264 can be found, but in that case, these are rebarreled rifles. There is a company here in Italy, which has rebarreled quite a few. There is right now a guy selling one of those .264 Carcanos (a 41) close to me, here in the North-East.
They have no particular markings, so these rifles can be dangerous, because if you shoot .268 through them, the pressure skyrockets.
I don't know of any such rifles having been exported, but I'm far from being an expert on this. But considering that those jobs were made the earliest in the mid- to late eighties, if not even in the nineties, I don't think there is much of a chance that any of those reached the shores of the USA.
The original Carcanos have a 4-groove barrel, with right-hand rifling. These others, if I'm not wrong, have a 6 groove barrel.
If you want a lot of info, try visit this site: www.il91.it. Everything in Italian, but with the translators you can now have a much easier access to the contents here.
In case of doubts, pop me a PM.

[KneverKnew]

I just recieved the box of Norma Carcano brass. What experience are people having reloading these? I’ve been reading about issues with the Norma extractor grooves not working in various shell holders and presses.

[Ovidio]

I can't say anything bad about them. I use the shell holder no. 2 or 3, can't recall anymore (Lee).
They always worked fine.
I only do collet resizing! Not the whole brass.

By the way, you're leaving Sapper hanging from his a...l side

Sorry Sapper. It just killed me when I read it...

[bob q]

The correct shell holder is RCBS # 9 , Norma cases are on the small side . PPU has bad quality control so they can vary . The PPU .268 bullets are closer to .267 and they do not have the problems caused by Hornady's bad .268 bullet design . So any normal powder for that type round will be fine with the PPU bullets . Carcano bore sizes did change over the years . The early rifles had grooves about .270 + , then about .268 , with late made M-41's having bores as small as .266 ish . The military bullet is right at .266 dia and was made to be a bore rider like the rest at that time . The main thing to look for is the total bore area - land and groove and the combination of both . That and gain twist or not will be a major factor on what bullet to use . That is what Emery did not understand and why he kept breaking rifles . I wrote an article a long time ago when the Hornady .268 first came out [after test firing about 400 in many different rifles , bore sizes and loads ] that told what was wrong with the bullet design and why it causes problems in some rifles .

[KneverKnew]

Gey yourself some good current reloading data for the round and see how much you can download it. A lighter bullet at less velocity can help reduce recoil. Start with the lowest power lightest bullet loads in your data and check for accuracy.
You can fiddle with the load from there. Obviously you'll want full power and a heavier bullet for hunting but you have a few months yet before you have to use those again.

For myself I would want to have that chamber issue solved before I took that carbine into the field. As a point of information there are no drill scope mounts available for that model receiver. Considering how notoriously bad those sights are it may be something to consider for use as a hunting rifle. You can try thecountryshed.com they sell many milsurp no drill mounts. Many are the scout scope type.

Thanks. I believe a scope would be longer than the rifle. LOL!! We are shooting from our back porch at a distance of about 45-50 yards. I think the iron’s will suffice. I appreciate the thought though.

[Ovidio]

Contessa, an Italian very high end producer of scope mounts, just released a new scope mount for all Carcanos. Great piece of engineering, but outrageously expensive. Slightly offset, it allows also big diameter optics.
But I totally agree that at your distance, irons are king.
Let us know when you try again, if the aiming as suggested helps. I also once took a short piece of welding wire (don't remember the thickness, but it was probably around 1 mm) and glued it to the front sight. That really helped!
But the fact that the front sigh is not protected means that you'll knock it off very quickly, just by putting the rifle in a bag or in the safe.
You just have to calculate how much higher you need to be to come down those 31 inches at 50 yards, and put the "extension" in place.